AHL: Smart Answers For Cabling Pros

We run through 10 fast, field-tested questions that hit the problems installers and designers face when they need answers they can use right away. We connect rules of thumb to real design limits so you can plan cleaner pathways, protect signal quality, and avoid expensive rework. 
• sizing underground conduit using cable OD plus pulling eye clearance 
• planning pull points beyond the memorized 600-foot spacing for single mode fiber 
• decoding firestopping terms like listed, tested, certified and why the UL system drawing matters 
• understanding what happens when you connect 62.5 micron fiber to 50 micron fiber 
• explaining fiber loss budget math using a simple bank account model 
• distinguishing common mode from differential mode interference and why pair balance matters 
• choosing open ceiling vs drop ceiling in telecom rooms based on access and cooling needs 
• using a patch panel to horizontal wire manager rack unit rule of thumb 
• adjusting patch cord allowances when using 28 AWG cords and considering PoE resistance 
• keeping power and communications separated inside shared utility columns using barriers and bonding 
Make sure you go to Let’s Talk Cabling.com forward slash learn. 
Make sure you join the Let’s Talk Cabling crew. Go to Let’s Talk Cabling.com forward slash ask dash Chuck Dash Live. 
Send me a message with content you want to see me produce. 

Transcript

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Tech Glitch And Announcements

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yes, there we go. There we go. Can you hear me now? Sorry about that glitch. I don't know if you have all kinds of issues there. I'd um been trying to figure out OBS and how that works and try to use it with the platform and stuff like that. It's a really cool platform. We can do lots of cool stuff. But it's kind of like Adobe Premiere Pro of the Sound World. It's a oof, it's a pain in the you know what. So um, anyways, let's get on with the show, right? So, first things first, acronym challenge. ICT acronym. What does MC mean? What does MC mean? If you know that, put it in the chat box. MC. Chat, so you should know this. What does MC mean? Hey, how's your job doing there, my friend? Is it going good? Let me know. Um, so MC is the acronym looking for. While you are typing that in, I also do what are you drinking? Because it's a live after hour show, so you can drink whatever you want. But Chuck is drinking Xevia water. Uh Zevia gingerlian water yet again. Doing the old diabetes struggle. Um better, but you know, hey, there you go. So MC, Main Cross Connect. That's the uh the old MDF, what people used to call it in the past. So there you go. Um next week, remember, October, we're flipping, you hear me, Shotzi? Live streams on Monday nights. Podcast is coming out on Wednesday night. We're flipping that. And then also, I launch I relaunched, I relaunched courses. I relaunched the firestopping course, the bottom of grounding course, the codes and standards course. So make sure you go to Let's TalkCambling.com forward slash L-E-A-R-N. Learn. Let's talkcambling.com forward slash learn. So you can see those classes, and actually have a couple more. My next one started on is going to be labeling. Labeling. Yeah. This week's episode, I interviewed uh uh the FMP Alliance. We talked about fault-maged power systems, had about a 45-minute conversation, talked about 450 volts. 450 volts over twisted pair cabling. That's just amazing. Absolutely amazing kind of stuff. Electricians, watch out because us low volt people are gonna start digging your job. Um, coming up after that, I've got my show on the anti-static flooring, where I put the flooring up in the podcast studio. Behind that, I've got my how to install access control systems and winter safety. Winter safety. Those are all recorded, just gotta be edited and published. Uh, they're gonna come out over the next three or four weeks. Some shows in the pipeline. I'm still in the process of trying to um sign all my guests, come up with um outlines and stuff. And I think a lot of people will like this one because I see a lot of questions on uh people starting their own low voltage company and they struggle with the sales part. So I got a person, a sales expert coming on to talk about how to sell low voltage projects, to talk about this cycle. By the way, everybody is a salesperson in this industry. So that's gonna be a really, really cool show. And then uh um right behind that one, the guest has already agreed to come on. I've shot him the uh the agenda, the outline. Uh we're just trying to schedule a day, the actual recording. But how to buy a cable certifier. If you're in the market to buy certifiers, what are some things you need to know? What are some things you need to think through to make sure you buy the correct, the correct certifier? K-Man's in the house, Hitch is in the house, and a bunch of other people are in the house. Oh, by the way, if there's any content that you would like to see me produce, send me a message. Tell me, hey Chuck, I would really, really, really like to see an episode on whatever it is that you want to see. Also, if you enjoy hanging out with us here, make sure you come to our monthly Ask Chuck Live. We talk shop, we answer your questions, and we learn from each other. Finding how to join the Let's Talk Cabling crew, because that's a Zoom call. Interactive. See, this one, I got the questions ahead of time, and I kind of read the questions. That one, you can hit me up with the questions live, and we can have long conversations, involved conversations. So make sure you join the Let's Talk Cabling crew. Go to Let's Talk Cabling.com forward slash ask dash Chuck Dash Live. So you can actually join that one. Alrighty.

Conduit Sizing For Direct Burial

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Let's get on with the questions. We got 10 questions tonight. Let's anybody want to put up, see if uh see if I actually get this done in time. Okay, there we go. This was from Jason on YouTube. He says, Chuck, I'm getting ready to install a direct buried conduit for a large OSP communications cable. How do I figure out the size, the conduit that I need? Do I just use conduit fill, or do I need to account for the size of the cable and the pooling eye, too? Oh, that is such a great question because it kind of ties in with what I'm doing. I got my fiber to connect the new podcast studio to down here. Uh that came in this week. Um I just got now gotta dig the trench and put in the Schedule 40 uh conduit and run that down. I said that's kind of really cool stuff going on. But this is a great question because conduit fuel ratio isn't the only thing that you need to be thinking about when you're trying to size your underground pathway. Now there's a rule of thumb that you can that you can that you can apply. Basically, what you want to do is you want to make sure that the conduit is at least one and a half times the diameter of the actual cable. So find out what the cable OD is, multiply that by 0.5, and that'll give you a good idea what size the conduit it's supposed to be. Um I'm putting in tiny fiber, tiny fiber, so it's a real small, tiny little fiber. It's amazing how small this thing is. Um when you go to like a payphone and that the cord that connects the head handset of the phone, it's about that size. It's a single mode fiber. I'm looking really, really looking forward to putting in. But you know, you also need to make sure that uh you think about the future because you know it's not fun digging a 12-inch trench and putting in conduit, right, and putting all together, and then you know, later on you want to add something else. But the the what a lot of people don't think about when they're putting in their oh look uh putting in their their conduit is you know the cable itself is not the the biggest thing going through that conduit. Since I'm bringing in tiny fiber, you know Chuck's gonna leave a pull string. So that way if I decide to put something in later, it won't be an issue. But maybe I should reach out to Max L and tell him I want to do that. I'm gonna reach out to Max L. I'm gonna write and make a note there. Maxel. I can tell him I'm putting it in. And I want to put this in, I'll make a video about it. But here's the thing the pulling eye can be a lot larger diameter than the cave. In fact, in my case, it is. It absolutely is because again, it's tiny fiber. I mean, it's literally about the size of a pencil. No, no, it's small, it's actually probably smaller than that. It's really small. So the pulling eye is gonna be way larger than that. And so, you know, when I put it in, um, if you're using like a breakaway head, those things can be kind of large. So you gotta make sure that the condo is big enough for that to go through, and also to go through the bends, you know, the corners, right? Here's the thing. Um if there's not a factory installed eye, then you might have to put on your own. You get a telemetry with a radio breakaway head. You didn't say what size fiber is that you were testing, but um and then again, make sure that you that you comply with your code and make sure that you pay attention to your your fill ratios for that as well, too. And then you know the thing is before you run thousands of feet in underground conduit, make sure you know the OD of that cable. Make sure you know the OD and the bed radiuses. Planning, planning, planning is the key thing there because you only got one shot. Marty McFly is in the house, Funky Monkey is in the house. Nice, nice. There you go. Next question, this comes from Derek.

Pull Point Spacing For Single Mode

SPEAKER_00 9:06

And Derek says, Chuck, I've always heard that when you're designing underground conduit systems, we should put in a manhole or a pull point about every 600 feet, and that's correct. 600 feet. But if I'm installing single mode fiber, am I still limited to 600 feet between manholes? Okay, that's a good question. Again, also applies to what I'm doing because you know it's not 600 feet between the podcast studio and the house here, but but I am putting in single mode fiber. But no, 600 feet is not an automatic hard limit when you're trying to figure out the route that's designed specifically for single mode fiber. Roughly 600 feet spacing is a common common practice that we use for underground cabling, so that way we don't pull too hard on the cable. For routing for single mode, you know, with single mode, it's the only medium, you're not putting anything else in it. No multi-mode, no copper, just a single mode fiber. The sections between those pull points can be a lot longer. Now, you actually go into TDMM, the telecommunications distribution methods manual, um, it indicates that you can, you know, you can run make runs of approximately about 400 meters. 400 meters. Does somebody know how long 400 meters and feet? Tell me that in the uh in the chat box. How long is 400 meters? Um I I can tell you right now, it's 1,312 feet. My podcast is not 1,312 feet away from my house. It's not right. Um but again, it can go further because you know it supports longer, it supports that longer continuous pulling, especially with mine because I don't have many bends. I'm gonna have one nine-degree bend, I'll put a pull point there. But I don't want you to hear, oh, I've got 1,312 feet. That's the new maximum. It's not that simple. Okay. As the distance increases, you have to really start engineering your pull, thinking about the pulling tangent. Oh, maybe I might even actually hook up uh a thing to tell me how hard I'm pulling in a fiber optic cable. So that way we can kind of see.

unknown 11:01

Right?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Um, what's the bend radius? What's the conduit size and the number of bends, and what does the manufacturer say? Yeah, but you wouldn't be blowing the fiber at that length. I'm not blowing the fiber. I'm I'm gonna run schedule 40 conduit and put a pull string in as I do it. So it's gonna be pulled through traditionally with a regular pull line. So um the key is, you know, a lot of people memorize that 600 feet, and that's gonna be fine for, again, if you're doing mixed mediums and stuff like that, but single mode fiber, you can go longer distances, especially if that distance is straight and doesn't have a bunch of bends. Unknown soldiers. Thank you for commenting

What Firestopping Labels Really Mean

SPEAKER_00 11:38

there. So question number three from Tyler says, Chuck, I'm an apprentice and I'm studying firestopping, and I see all these different words listed, tested, approved, certified, classified, and qualified. Are these actually different types of fire stop systems where they basically say the same thing? I get it. It is absolutely confusing because you know that they you know, you see all these words, and you and our work our industry is real specific on the words that you choose. And so you got to really pay, like, should show me must. And you know, shouldn't shall. They sound like the same words, but they're not. One's a recommendation, one is a requirement. So when you're talking about those words listed, approved, right, tested, certified, classified, qualified, what you're really talking about is the test of the systems of the tested. You know, the problem most common one you can hear is listed. And what does listed actually mean? That means that that product has been tested to meet the UL standards. Now, if you're talking about flame testing, that's UL444, where they measure the smoke and how far the flame can propagate before it self-extinguishes. And if it passes the UL444, then it's a listed cable and you can install it inside of the building. Um, we're talking about firesop systems, though, um the terms we're talking about pretty much mean the same thing. You don't have to memorize the the meaning of all the six words. Just remember that it's been tested by an NRTL, a nationally recognized testing language. Examples of those would be Intertech, right, UL, UL of Canada. Those are all Anthony's in the house, Dave Sharp's in the house, Justin TV's in the house. Um all those are the same. So qualified, tested, listed, classified, approved, certified, they mean the same thing. Now, the reason you have different words is because there's more than I only listed three NRTLs. There's a lot more than three. And each one seems to use its own terminology, right? And as an apprentice, I can certainly understand why when you read one document it says listed, and another one it might say qualified. I can certainly understand why you're getting confused with that. But you know, the bigger lesson is you just can't grab a bucket of firestop material just because it has that label on it, right? It's got to be a tested system. I talked about this before. People ask me one time, well, Chuck, um, what kind of putty do I put in my sleeve and I put it through the wall? You've got to do a Purry UL drawing. That's gonna tell you what kind of putty, how much putty, doesn't need to have mineral backing to it, doesn't need to have a smoke seal. What's the fill ratio? The fuel ratio may not be 40%. In fact, a lot of firestop systems, the fuel ratio is not 40%. You know, there are some systems that are gonna be as high as 100%, some that could be as low as 18%. Are you penetrating a wall or a floor? What's the size of the opening? A lot of your fire stop systems will tell you what is the minimum and maximum in your spaces, and you're only gonna find that by reading the UL drug. I would highly recommend that if you haven't take a fire stopping class. I mentioned I got my fire stopping class. You can take that, you can go to my website and you can find that class, you can take that class. But take take a fire stopping class because if you install a firestop system incorrectly, what you are doing is illegal. Illegal. And you can be held, you can be held liable for that. You can if somebody gets hurt, you can you can be you can go to jail for that. There's a big difference between making a hole right and making it look sealed and actually restoring it back to its original firestop ratings. Taylor Man's in the house. I love that. I love that name. Question number four.

Mixing 62.5 And 50 Micron Fiber

SPEAKER_00 15:27

This comes from Kevin. Chuck, can I connect a 62.5 multi-mode fiber to a 50 micron fiber? Will it still work? What kind of loss? What problems can it cause? Okay, well, first off, you're not supposed to be installing 62.5 anymore. It's a c it's what's called a legacy fiber. OM1 and OM2 are legacy fibers. We're not supposed to be installing anymore. We're supposed to be starting off with OM3, which is 50 micron laser optimized fiber. But you might have 62.5 existing cable plant somewhere. And you know, I'm starting to hear more and more people say that they're having a hard time finding 62.5 fiber, right? 62.5 fiber, right? People are having a hard time finding that. So, yes, you can physically connect them, but what that does not mean that it's a good design practice. The biggest issue is remember, they have two different core sizes. Now the outside dimension is gonna be the you know, it's gonna be the same, it's gonna be 250 or 900 micron. So the core where the light actually travels is gonna be the different size. So the 62.5 is uh um is larger than the 50 micron. So the direction of the light matters. So so if the light coming from a 50 micron into a 62.5, um, generally that 62.5, because it's a larger core, can generally capture that light more easily. But if you go the other way around, if you're going from a 62.5 into a 50 micron, well, some of the light coming out of the 62.5 is going to fall outside the receiving core of the light or the fiber, and it's not gonna happen. And you're gonna you're gonna experience some significant power loss. Um so, for example, if the mismatch uh can give you somewhere around 5.7 dB of loss in the unfavorable direction. And 5.7 dB, by the way, is not a little bit of loss. It can eat up a large portion of your fiber optic loss budget. So keep that in mind. So just remember, even because you can, doesn't mean that you should. And then another thing you really need to consider too, you know, cortis is only part of that story. Numerical aperture and modal behavior are different. So if you have a mix of 50 micron and 62 to 5 in the field, I would treat that as something to document, something to evaluate, and it's not something I would intentionally design in a new install. But, you know, you know, again, think of it this way. You're having that smaller pipe going to the bigger pipe, it's not going to be a problem there, right? Uh the Astros 5. All right, what's my favorite song to jam out to while driving to the job site? Mine is I Have Too Much of Treatment by Electric Prunes. Um the chat says don't mix fire side products. Yes. So it's funny you ask that. I have a playlist on my phone, and I tend to love um I tend to love Memphis Delta Blues and songs like that. There's this one, there's one song I can't tell you. If somebody can look this up and tell me what it is, there's this one song, uh, and I can't remember the name of it, but basically it's like, um, if you don't like me, go kick rocks. I love that song. Absolutely love that song. So there

Fiber Loss Budgets Made Simple

SPEAKER_00 18:46

you go. Question number five from Brandon. Chuck, I'm pretty new to fiber. And I keep hearing people talking about fiber loss budgets or optical power budgets. I understand that connectors and splices cause loss, but I'm getting lost in all that math. Can you explain how a loss budget works in simple terms? Yes, I can. It's pretty simple. Think of a fiber optic link as having a full bank account, but instead of money, you have optical power. And every component that that light has to go through takes a little bit out of that account. It's kind of like your paycheck, right? You put your paycheck in, and every one of the bill payers takes out a little bit. Those bill payers are those event losses and stuff like that. So first you've got to figure out how much power you have available. And that's based on how much the transmitter is putting out, and what is the minimum power that the receiver needs in order to operate.

unknown 19:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

The difference between those two numbers gives you the basic system gain, right? The bayon gain. Or um what people call it the available optical power budget. Then you need to account for any of the penalties going through that system. And that's going to be you know, mated pairs, it's going to be events like fusion supplies, uh, uh, or mechanical supplies, because all that's gonna take a little bit of that. And then you've got to figure out, okay, how much am I gonna lose just from that light going down the fiber itself? Right. Um, if you if you're doing pond networks, you know, your splitters and your couplers, you gotta count for those too. All you gotta calculate all those losses, right? And then you've got to compare those two numbers of what can I afford versus how much do I expect. And so think of it this way. If you have a system that can tolerate 10 dB of loss, right? 10 dB of loss, and my fiber connectors and my splays are total 6 dB, 10 dB minus 6 dB means I have 4 dB of system performance margin. That's a 4 dB cushion. Now, if my result gets to zero, then I've used up my entire budget. If my numbers are negative, then there's not enough power coming out of the transmitter to go through all those events and be above the minimum threshold for the receiver. That's why I say, you know, saying that, you know, test the fiber to pass doesn't necessarily mean it's the answer to the whole design question. You know, pass against what limit and what application? Because you start talking about fiber, there's different applications and get different distances and more longer lengths, meaning longer lot more losses because it's going longer distances. The easy way to remember it is, you know, what's the power available? Subtract your penalties, and again, that's going to be your connectors, your splices, right? And then subtract everything else, like the margin go down the cable, and that's your margin. And if you have money left in the bank afterwards, winner, winner, chicken dinner. You got it. You got it. Question

Common Mode Vs Differential Noise

SPEAKER_00 21:47

number six, and this comes from Mike. Says I'm an installer. I keep hearing these terms common mode and differential mode interference. I understand they're both types of noise. But what actually is different about them and why should I care when installing category-rated cabling? So let's start off with this. Both common mode and differential mode interference is unwanted electrical signals, right? But they behave differently on the conductors. That's the difference. Common mode is when the unwanted signal appears basically the same way in phase or on both conductors of the pair relative to the ground. Think of it as both wires getting pushed in the same direction at the same time. Common mode interference comes from things typically like external electromagnetic interference, grounding issues, or even potential electrical noise. Now, normally a properly balanced twist pair cable is good at rejecting common mode noise, but where the balance becomes extremely important is uh is the pair or equipment isn't balanced. And some of the common mode noise can be converted into differential mode noise. Once that happens, once that happens, walk my walk. Yes, that's it. Walk my walk by breathing rust. I love that song. It's like one of my favorite songs. Differential mode is the unwanted signal that exists between two conductors and the pair. The problem with differential mode is it's more troublesome because Ethernet intentionally uses the difference between those conductors to carry that information. In other words, the differential noise starts looking at more like the signal than the receiver is actually trying to detect. And crosstalk is a great example of this. Energy from one pair of couples onto another pair and interferes with that transmitted signal. Again, crosstalk, and we all know that crosstalk is it comes in lots of different forms, near crosstalk, fire crosstalk, the power sun crosstalks, alien crosstalk, and they all cause problems. And that's the reason why you as an installer need to care about maintaining that paired geometry. Paired geometry is just maintaining the twist of the point of termination and making sure that the pairs don't get untwisted amongst each other underneath the cable. Like the don't allow the cable to get kinked, don't exchange band raises, don't over tighten cable ties, poor termination. They can all cause that problem. And this and this isn't simply a shielded versus an unshielded conversation. Both shielded and unshielded systems depend on proper design and installation. They both do. Just think of it this way: common mode is unwanted noise riding together on a pair relative to the ground. Differential mode is unwanted noise appearing between two conductors. Okay, so a poorly balanced system, you know, you know, can take common mode interference that the cabling might otherwise reject or convert it into something into differential mode if that system becomes corrupt. That's why you, when you go to a pixie class, they keep beating you up over about maintaining paired geometry, maintaining proper terminations. It's critical. It's critical. Okay, check in my chat box there. Nobody's there. Okay, number seven.

Telecom Room Ceiling Design Choices

SPEAKER_00 24:58

I might no, I'm not gonna make it, I'm not gonna make it by 30 minutes this time. Oops, sorry. 30 minutes. Chuck, I'm an installer trying to move into ICT design. When I'm laying out of telecom rooms, should I specify a drop ceiling or is it better to leave the ceiling open? As a general practice, suspended ceilings are not recommended in the telecom room. That's in the TDM. Not recommended. But we all know not recommended means you can do it, right? The big reason is accessibility and flexibility. An open ceiling makes it far easier to install, maintain, modify cable, ladder rack, backbone cabling, all that stuff because you're not worried about breaking ceiling tiles, ceiling grid, stuff like that. But there can be exceptions. You know, a suspended ceiling absolutely makes sense when part of the room's cooling strategy or another specific design requirement, and you're trying to keep that air down because it's cheaper. Yeah, what you're doing is you're reducing the amount of space that you need to keep cool. If you do specify a suspended ceiling, there's some guidance for a grid system, right? Number one, um, it's got to be removable. Do you make sure that you use non-fibric tiles and don't use anything larger than a two by two. As a designer, you need to make sure that you pay attention to the ceiling height. You know, you know, typically you'll find a lot of the ceiling heights are about uh eight feet above the finished floor, uh, with some consideration going up to 10 feet. But don't blindly specify eight feet because here's the problem. Remember, a rack, like the one right there, that's a seven-foot rack. If you've got an eight-foot ceiling, that means you literally have 12 inches above that rack below the tiles to put on your ladder rack or your cables. That doesn't give you any room for your cable dropouts. Keep that in mind. If you got tall racks like A foot rack, it ain't gonna fit. Right? You gotta think about that. Also, think about the ceiling finish. You need to make sure that you pick something that minimizes dust, because remember, a lot of times we're gonna have fiber inside of it, and fiber hates dust. Also, another design consideration, pick a light color tile, because that'll reflect illumination in the room. And you start getting into some of the pair counts. I know some people say they're they're colorblind, but the thing is, when you start talking about plenum rated, like 25-pair cabling, plenum rated 50-pair cabling, those orange and brown pairs are hard to tell apart. They're hard to tell apart. So, my design mindset would a finished ceiling make the room prettier? Okay, but does the ceiling really help the function of that space? Most dedicated telecom rooms are open. They don't have those ceilings. And again, that makes it a lot easier. Remember, you're not the the telecom room's not the lobby of the Ritz-Carlton. It's not about making it aesthetically pleasing. It's supposed to be functional. Functional. Question

Horizontal Wire Manager Rule Of Thumb

SPEAKER_00 27:47

number eight. Chuck, I know some installers don't use horizontal wire managers anymore, but I still like using them because they keep the rack clean. Is there a rule of thumb for how many horizontal wire managers I should install with my patch panels? I don't understand what you're saying. I understand, uh, who is it, Chris? I understand because there's a there's a movement to do switch, patch panel, switch, patch panel, switch, patch panel. And then make these short patchboards to make things live. I'm not a big fan of that setup. I'm not gonna say you shouldn't do it, but I'm not a big fan of it. But I'm with you. Horizontal wire managers make the racks a lot easier to manage, especially when you're dealing with a lot of patchboards. If you only got a small little veterinary office that got maybe six, eight drops, maybe not a big deal, right? But a good consideration is for each rack unit of horizontal cable management, for every rack unit of patch panels. Okay, and I'll say that again. Okay. All right. Um for every rack unit of patch panels, you need an equal number of rack units for wire managers, plus one. So let's say I can look at my rack back here, it's kind of hard to tell, but uh I've got uh I've got um three, no, no, no, I've got two two RU patch panels. That's four RUs of patch panels, right? So now I should have five RU's of horizontal wire managers. Does that make sense? So it's the number of RUs for the patch panels plus one for the thing. Why the actual one? Because cords don't magically stop needing management, just because you've reached that last panel. You need a way to, uh you need a clean way to transition those cords towards those towards those vertical wire managers. Jack says he's also not a fan of these short patch chords, but it looks like to put a B on the work. Yeah. Um yeah, I mean I can argue with that scenario, you got some heat problems, but yeah, I'm not gonna get into that right now. You know, the goal is basically just to control those passports, control the band radiuses, make it or make it organized so people can do moves, ads, changes. Don't wait until the rack is populated before you figure this out because a lot of times that's that's too late. That's too late. Question

Patch Cord Length Limits For 28 AWG

SPEAKER_00 29:57

number nine from Matt on Facebook. Matt on Facebook, and check my no more questions coming in there. Chuck, it's always been taught the copper channel, it can be 100 meters or 90 meters with a horizontal cable, 10 meters with pass cords. That's right. 10 meters or 32.8 feet. Um, does the 10-meter patch cord allowance change when I also use those thinner 28 gauge pass cords? Hey, tell me in a chat box, tell me in the chat box, do you use 28 gauge patch cords? Tell me in the chat box. Yeah, I'm just curious if you and if you do, what do you think about them? Okay. But yes, there is a change. There is a change, right? Because the the the this one rule that the people miss when they memorize that 90-meter plus 10 rule, the 90-meter plus 10 rule is you're talking about not 24 gauge copper solid conductor cable, 24 gauge pass cords. If you start going with 26 gauge, 28 gauge, you're going with smaller conductors. You can actually go longer feet. So the maximum for 26 gauge is going to be 26 feet. The maximum for 28 gauge is going to be 20 feet. Okay, because they're smaller conductors. Now, here's the thing. Combined with that length, you're now it's not, you're now it's not a 20-foot in the TR, it's another 20 feet at the workstation for the 28 gauge. What works, what makes this work is as you as you decrease in the size, the the the AWG, the the the gauge size actually increases. And it's backwards in the wire, I guess it's because of the number of times it gets pulled through the draw, all that fun stuff. But here's where it becomes to play, especially when we start talking about PoE, especially when you start talking about DC resistance, because they're delivering power through those conductors. And there's another number uh that that you see quite often in the in the best practice manuals and in the standards that talks about DC lube resistance, the channel less than 25 ohms, 25 ohms, and that total amount of 20 gauge passports should not exceed that as long as you're staying with you know whether it's 15 meters or or 50 feet. Don't confuse that 50-foot resistance consideration with permission to automatically just go with you know 50-foot passports. You're still gonna be have to address those different limits.

unknown 32:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

So there you go. Remember this the smaller the conductor, the more resistance, the more loss, and potentially less allowable patch cord length. Alrighty.

Separation Inside Shared Utility Columns

SPEAKER_00 32:27

So next, you know, question number 10. This is the final one. This comes from Alex. Check on my next project. We're installing utility columns that will carry both the electrical power cabling and data cabling. How do I maintain separation between the power and the communication cables inside the same column? I understand that question. A lot of people are gonna come out and say, but Chuggy, it's got the it's got the metal uh uh divider in it. Not all utility poles do. There are some that are just designed specifically for communications. Right? What happens if your pro I know this never happens. Tell me this happens to you. What happens if the project manager orders the wrong utility polls? Right? Orders the wrong polls. Uh the Astro says patch pool with 28 gauge is PL2 rated. I did not know that. Um the vast majority of low voltage stuff is PL1 rated. So I did not know that. Who said that? That was the Astro V. Tay, Astro V, tell me where did you get that information from? Because I want to go look that up. I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm just saying. So, anyways, so yes, I certainly understand, right? You can run power and communications through the same utility pole, right? When the when the utility pole is gonna be for both, there needs to be that barrier. Right? You know, you got that, you got that nice box. You need to separate. One side is for power, the other side is for communication. That barrier is what provides the physical separation within the column, which is gonna help you meet code and also help keep knock down EMI. When you're dealing with manufactured pathways, you know, make sure you use a column that's that's listed and designed to be used for both communicate communications and power. And that the metal bar and metal barrier may also need to be bonded too. Mount that utility pole in the the corner of the ceiling tile. The coming with an anchoring kit, make sure you secure it in the ground because these things get bumped around a lot. Bumped around a lot. And what happens is then if it get bumped, then you'll see in the call centers, you'll see the utility poles at a little bit of an angle one over the other. So there you go. Alrighty, that was my tenth question. I told you I had 10 questions, and it's 636, so I didn't go that much over. Didn't go that much over. So there we go. So

Live Schedule Changes And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_00 34:47

we'll go ahead. I appreciate everybody coming up. Remember, next week, live streams on Monday, podcast is on Wednesday. Send me your show ideas to do multiple uh for content for shows coming up. And uh, and also I got that fire stopping class, the bonding and grounding class, codes versus standards class, all been recognized by Bixie for CECs again. They're available. Go to let's talkcaling.com forward slash learn. Until next time, everybody, remember knowledge is power.