Data Centers And Real Community Concerns Part 2

We cut through the noise around data centers by separating real community concerns from internet myths, then we talk about why most fights come down to bad communication and missing context. We also zoom out to the future of AI infrastructure and get practical about what techs should learn first if they want a solid career inside modern data centers. 
• what local residents actually hear when a data center is proposed 
• real concerns like heat, noise, water, traffic, construction impact, and power upgrades 
• why rural broadband and fiber optic expansion can be a hidden upside 
• how hyperscalers may add generation and backfeed power to the grid 
• what communities should demand on jobs, taxes, emergency services, and transparency 
• why standards and best practices reduce waste and improve builds 
• advice for new technicians on tools, attitude, site rules, and safety basics 
• which certifications matter and why BICSI signals learning and process 
• myths we wish would die and where the industry must improve next 
Be there Saturday, help support a good cause, and get to meet me. 

Transcript

Quick Announcements And Events

SPEAKER_03 0:31

One brief announcement, two things I want to make sure I say and get out of here. Number one, you probably noticed a disappearance of my profile on LinkedIn. I'm currently working through this issue with LinkedIn, trying to get it fixed, trying to get me back up running. But you can still watch me through YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and all those other feeds. Or go to the Let's Talk Gabling webpage. That does it as well, too. Also, Textgiving coming up here in a few months in Philadelphia. Uh something that I always promote every year. This year I will be there. I will be there on that Saturday. So those if that information is in the description below. So be there Saturday, help support a good cause, and get to meet me. Now let's get on with the show. This

What Neighbors Fear About Data Centers

SPEAKER_03 1:13

is a question for you, Ed, because you know, we understand that it provides us benefits, and some of those you know, fears are are, I think, unfounded or or overdriven. But if a do if a developer says, hey, we're gonna put a data center in your backyard and it's gonna bring job and innovation, what do you think the local residents are hearing?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Oh, that's that's uh that's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Um I noticed. That's why I asked you.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

The the the the residents the residents are hearing that there's gonna be major construction that they don't want. They they they instantly hear both sides of the data center debate. And I'm seeing this online like crazy. You have the anti-data center group, and and uh I'm sorry to say it, and I'm sorry to bring the show there, but there is a whole anti-data center group out there that just box comments like crazy, saying there's radiation, there's these things. So the local community is bombarded, not necessarily understanding the benefits and the issues. Is there true concern to have with a data center moving close? Sure. There's heat dissipation. That that that could impact the and that could impact the environment. Absolutely. Nobody is saying that this is a perfect technology. Uh, but there are legitimate concerns, uh, like there would be with any building coming up or any other structure coming into your neighborhood. If you have a large mall coming, you understand that there's a large heat dissipation with the cooling that those malls provide for all of those stores, a large amount of electricity being drawn to keep all of those stores open. But people interact, feel, touch, smell everything in those malls. They don't with data centers. They interact with this device, and this device is the one that is touching with the data center, and they don't understand that connection. People instantly think about higher bills. That it's oh, this is gonna increase my electricity, it's gonna hurt it. People start thinking about the noise. People start thinking about uh, again, the the the impact to the environment.

The Rural Fiber Benefit Nobody Mentions

SPEAKER_01 3:24

But what they never really understand, especially as you go rural, like in the places that you're mentioning, is that those data centers being built in those areas begin to fund that fiber optic cabling that was promised in rural America now for about four or five presidencies. We are trying very hard in the technology community to light up rural America, and we keep getting stop gaps from one thing to another and another, and right now it's data centers. If I have a small AI data center that wants to build in rural America and they're willing to pay $25 million for that fiber backhaul back to the main feed, guess what? All the local towns that span that that 30 mile or sometimes even hundred-mile fiber span are gonna benefit being able to connect because I'm not gonna pull two fibers or four fibers for a data center. I'm gonna I'm gonna do a 400 plus count. Yeah. Why is that not being broadcast to the community? Instead, only the negatives. I don't know if I answered your question, but that's the one. No, I actually did.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah, and you brought up some you actually brought up a great point that I never really thought about before is you know it's gonna be bringing, you know, technology I it resonated with me because you know this about me, Ed. I live in a little homestead and agricultural community in west central Florida, and I don't have fiber to the home. I've got spectrum over Coax, which is flaky at best. Um, so because of that, I have to have a backup internet. So I've got Starlink and I got T-Mobile, and I would love if they brought fiber to our local. But you're right, they're not gonna bring in you know fiber from 100 miles away to service a community that has 32 people in it, right? But if they're putting a data center nearby, that's a let that's a legitimate business cause right there. So, Henry, what do you think is the the most legitimate technical concerns that a community might have about data centers?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

The the term legitimate is very loaded, and I'm gonna try and avoid that. So I would say that there are no legitimate concerns with a legitimate company. Anyone that's big enough to make an impact is gonna be a legitimate company that you know Ed and I both talked about. He talked about it, eliminating waste because that's just throwing money away. So I want to be careful, it's just like are so there's real concerns that the community is gonna have. They are not necessarily based on fact, but it's based on what they're hearing. So that's good enough for them to be concerned. If they're

Power Water And Public Safety Upgrades

SPEAKER_02 6:06

concerned about noise and water and pollution and traffic and construction, um, I think we have to be very careful as an industry to say, yeah, you know what, I think you you're right to be concerned about that. Um, and for any hyperscaler willing to listen, like you, um I I live in a uh a village of a thousand people. The mayor came to greet us when I moved in and I said, I love this thing. He goes, No, it's a village. Please remember, we're village, we want to keep it that way. Now, if one of the giant hyperscalers wanted to build a data center in some in some land uh outside of town, which is all of them are are doing, they're not doing it in your like these big megadata centers, not in your backyard, they're they're you know 20 minutes outside of town. Um, I'll be the advocate for my town and I will help explain that um, you know, Ed brought it up and he and he mentioned fiber because they're gonna bring fiber and they're going, well, why why would they help you? Well, remember, this is their core business, and they are spending not just billions, but tens of billions and hundreds of billions. It's the number one driver of the economy to give us what we want. We're demanding the data, right? So that some of the the magnificent seven are the people that we use every day for social media, for information, for web access. They're not doing it um out of the goodness of their heart, they're doing it because we want it. And if you need X amount of strands, you know, they build for capacity, but they have to build over capacity. You know, and if they need thousands of strands of fiber, they're gonna add in extra thousands. And to Ed's point, that will support our network. But it's not just the network, it's the power. You know, they you hear about a gigawatt facility. Oh my god, that would power a million homes. Yes, it would. Let's go and compare that to power for heavy industry, like a steel plant. You know, that uses a lot of power too, but we're not asking them to build their own power plants. Data centers are because they the grid can't build fast enough. And so they're building in power plants, but they are selling their overcapacity back to the grid. So they've made the business model to say, I'm gonna put in my own uh natural gas uh plant, like one of the one of the facilities I'm working on has a combination of natural gas, wind, solar, and geothermal. And they're backfeeding the grid. And yes, so the so the grid's back paying for it. They're getting the local energy company to do it, but local energy company isn't paying for the plant. Hyperscaler is so you're getting more power with less capital investment, which is driving down electricity costs. They're putting in a water wastewater facility and doing that. And they're not putting these negative data centers in prime residential land or prime uh farmland or in you know uh pristine environments that we all want to go in vacation, and it's it's in the leftover land that no one wants. Again, they don't like waste. It's the land that no one wants, it's scraggly, it's ugly, you're not you're you're not gonna put a plant in in there, but they're willing to do it because the price is right.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Um of the major considerations is is the cost of the land and and how much taxes they're gonna be paying on that land.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

And and and so you so you have this land that's non-productive, that's not doing anything, but hey, we're gonna backfeed the grid, we're gonna go and integrate the the wastewater system, hey, we're gonna bring you network access. And it's not just that, you know, I don't work for that hyperscaler, but I really wish I could grab their sales and market it for people, you know, to end this point and say, stop talking about the cloud and all the things you're giving to me on my phone. Like, that's all fantastic. Um, and I wish I could name them by name, but it's like, hey, you know, they're all about efficiency and waste. So it's like, you know what? Um, you know, if there's ever a security problem on site, we want to make sure that we have access to police, fire, ambulance, everything else. So guess what? In this small town like mine, the police department was old. You know what? We're equipping you with all new vehicles and new stations and the best communication systems. And we're gonna make sure that the uh the not just the the rural connection, but also the mobile radios and stuff are gonna work out there. They upgraded the fire department just in case there's a fire at the data center. Well, guess what? It's located in the town. They went so far as, you know, they're about um uh an hour outside of a small town, 20,000, 30,000 people. It's like, you know what? I'm really like these guys are generally concerned. I'm worried. What happens if somebody gets hurt on site? It's gonna be an hour trip out and back for the ambulance. That won't do. We're gonna install a helipad on a site. Oh, wait a minute, the local um hospital doesn't have a helipad. That's okay. We will build them a helipad and we will give them a helicopter. Like they're like they're trying to give back, but they're not telling the greatest story about it. And to your point, and and I find it ironic because you you brought it up, it's like people will hear one bit about information, and then there's a bunch of bots that do it. So it's like bots are what? They're electronic devices, and we're reamplifying the same voice through a data center to complain about data centers. And when I was at the data center world conference in in DC, it was funny. Somebody got a picture of the person, but I won't do that because I don't want to uh out them. But it was, hey, let's organize against data centers. All data centers are bad, scan this QR code. And it's like, oh you know, if you're against data centers, don't publish your phone number, don't do a QR code, you know, don't print it out on your laser printer, you know, paint it on a wooden sign, and you know use US post office to to to organize. And I don't mean that to make fun of people, but it's just to highlight um maybe they don't understand how ubiquitous you know, we've all we're all old enough to hear that data is going to be the fourth utility. Well, I don't think data's the fourth utility. It's pretty close to the first utility now, as far as what we use every day. Like we may not be in a place that's using water or heat or hydro. Like when we're out exploring nature, we're exploring nature, but what have we got? We've got our phone taking pictures, taking videos, all trails to get it, make sure that we don't get lost. Oh, I'm gonna use the picture scanner to figure out what that plant, what that bird is, what that animal is. But we want to fight against data. It's like, ah, it's it's data will not cost us to live or die, but it's the first utility because the one we use the most.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

It's funny you use the bird example because my wife has the bird app on her phone, and when we go camping and stuff, she'll like shh, I'm trying to capture the bird's voice. It's funny to you.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I I

Legit Questions Communities Should Ask

SPEAKER_01 13:24

want to jump in here real quick. You asked uh if there's legitimate concerns. And I I want to be fair to people because any new construction has legitimate concerns. So let's let's start with like when we're talking about power, who's gonna pay for that power upgrade, right? That's a legitimate concern. And and we we answer that. Usually the data center builder will pay for those power upgrades. Who's gonna rectify the situation with emergency services? Now we we talked about that just a moment ago, but whenever you're building a data center, sometimes they're treated as uh as a high responsive location, sometimes higher than a hospital, depending on because that's where where communication is for 911, things of that nature. Cooling, how's it gonna is it gonna be uh closed loop? Is it gonna be pure air? Is it gonna be, you know, is there gonna be lots of water w waste, right? Um is there are you gonna do physical construction to the ground? Now, uh there is a legitimate concern out there because there was a data center that was built, and in order to build that data center, I forgot the location where it was, but they uh the only way to get through the ground to set up the foundation is you have to dynamite it, right? You got places in Colorado and and rocky places like that where you have no choice but to dynamite the the structure. But when you did that, you introduced a lot of rock waste into the water, and now people perceive that as data center sewerage, and they misunderstand that because it was never explained right. That any construction that happens there, unfortunately, this was a larger construction of a building, is gonna cause that. So that not communicating that right causes legitimate concerns of when you build these places, you're gonna cause issues. How often are you gonna run that generator? I'm gonna hear it if I live near you. Are you gonna run it every day, every week, right? How many real jobs, permanent jobs, are we gonna create with this data center? You talk about creating jobs with data centers. How many are you gonna do? And the tax incentives, my tax dollars are going to this data center, and how am I gonna benefit, right? These are questions that the public should ask. Those are legitimate questions, not questions like, is radiation gonna kill me because a data center is right by there. No. These are legitimate questions, and I I promise you that data centers uh field these questions in a large questionnaire before they ever file anything with the local government. They field a lot of these questions. Look, uh, as you mentioned, um uh uh if we if we're gonna impact emergency services, we'll build you a helipad, we'll get you more fire trucks, we will we will pay for more people because we get that we are gonna be treated as a high-level emergency location. So I would say that those are legitimate questions from my perspective.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

It's it's funny, it's like you read my mind, Ed, because that was my question for you, my next question for you. So um, Andrew, you had you said you were gonna say something?

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Well, yeah, and there are legitimate questions. Noise, pollution, cost, everything else. And we're not saying everybody out there because AI is much like the gold rush or the the uh and data centers and data is is like the gold rush, like the industrial revolution, and a lot of good came out of it, and there are some bad actors in there too. So we're not saying approve every data center.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

But but you know, one of the things, one of the things that makes a difference though, Henry. One of the things that makes a difference uh when you compare today's modern data centers to the industrial boom of yesteryear. Um today we have standards and best practices. Uh back then they just do whatever they wanted to. And you're highly involved in in that those level discussions

Standards Waste Reduction And Mega Projects

SPEAKER_03 17:10

and creating those those standards and best practices. Um, is there do they have anything currently in them, or are they going to be at some point putting stuff in them that talks about the impact on the surrounding communities?

SPEAKER_02 17:22

So everybody is different, and and and and and I'll say there's a difference between your enterprise data center because there's there's data center as a vertical, you know, uh the Magnificent Seven, the AI providers, the cloud providers, the social media companies, the e-commerce people. That's data centers of vertical. So data is their primary function. The media companies, I will argue our data centers are vertical. Then there's data centers as a function, and there's not a business that I'm aware of that doesn't need a data center. So we got to get around that um uh first. But where I was going with this is the people that grab attention on the news are the people on the leading edge and the bleeding edge. They're literally going to the moon. Like, you know, one rack is five billion times more powerful than what we were using 40 years ago. And in a data center, there's 10,000 of those things. I don't even know what 10,000 times five billion is, but it's a really big freaking number. Um, so standards are there to make the rest of us um that live in you know roughly the same environment. You know, all three of us live in different towns, but they're roughly the same. We have different experiences, which but are roughly the same. But some of the big ones that are grabbing all the attention are they so transcend standards, they actually lead standards. So um the the work I'm doing with some of these people at hyperscale, they are so hyper-focused on their mission. You know, so there's ones that deal with things like AGVs and self-driving cars, there's ones that do ease e-commerce, there's ones that do uh internet access, there's ones that do social media, and just giving you those four examples, they have four vastly different missions, and it is truly mission critical. So all four of them build their data centers slightly different ways, and they are in an internal arms race, develop as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible, and as cleanly as possible, because that's as Ed said it's less ways. So I don't see standards because they're they tend to be reactive, you know, for our fin comps, for our banks, for our governments, for our hospitals, for uh for our industrial plants. Those tend to be reactive. I really see what's going on in the higher extra amount of data centers as driving that. So what uh so now what I see is these big buckets feeding back in and influencing on what we're doing, how to become more efficient in design. Uh, you know, as Ed said, it's all about eliminating waste. Um, and not that they're saying, hey, standards are bad, but it's like generic standards that are for multiple different missions inherently have waste. So I'm gonna design agile networks to give me exactly what I need, when I need it, how I need it, with zero waste. And that's what it's all about. So it's actually really refreshing to work on one of those mega projects because all of us were have been involved in construction sites, right? And you have concrete fighting against steel, fighting against site works, you have electricians versus plumbers versus you know the ugly tech guys like us on site, and they're all fighting.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Speak for yourselves.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

I can't believe it. It was like a hippie commune at one of these construction meetings, where it's like the number one thing is getting it done on time and getting it done right. And that is the most important thing, and you either all get along or you don't. And if you don't, then you're off the site. So it's all collaborative, and we're all trying to make each other better and more efficient. So it's so I'm answering your question in a reverse way. I see what they're doing, and by exploring the possibilities, they're improving what we're doing for everything else. So some of the learnings I have from some of these mega projects that are in the gigawatts, I'm applying those learnings into what we're doing for the bank data center or the hospital data center or the hotel. And it's actually working in reverse. And it's really this is the most exciting time of my career. And I'm just sorry that it's when I have gray hair, right? Yes, as opposed to when I had all my hair.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

I I I say that all the time, Henry. I you know, there's so much new stuff coming down the pike that it saddens me that I'm at the end of my career. But I think what I've gotten out of our conversation. So far, is it's not really a data center problem, it's a communication problem. Because I think I think people are tired of or maybe maybe not in reality, but maybe feeling like there's decisions being made behind the closed doors. And I think they're also, you know, they're and they're kind of anxious because they're waiting to see if you know all these promises of new jobs are actually being going to be delivered. I think I think that's kind of what's driving a lot of the a lot of the mistrust. Um so let's uh let's kind of shift our conversation in the moving forward, because we know they're not gonna stop building data centers. They're not, they're gonna keep going, they'll find a way. In fact, you yeah, Henry probably knows this. I think Ed knows if he listens to the show. There is a data center on the moon. Okay, we've put a data center on the moon. And I think I think it was Alan that talked about putting data centers in satellites in space or something, too, or something like that. Um, so they're not gonna go away, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Um yes, he did. But I always say if you've got a data center in space, you still want deep edge caching. So you know that that data's got to land somewhere, and there's still gonna be data centers here on Earth. You need them. You need them. Even if they're all if if 50% of them go into space, you're not you can't put them all in space.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Right. And then Henry also said this is the gold rush of the of the the the the the uh the low voltage industry, the limited energy, energy industry. I think I honestly I disagree with you, disagree with you there, Henry. I think it's the second gold rush of our industry. The first one was in the mid-80s when they shifted over from having one compute one cable for computers and a different cable for phones, and it kind of converged. That was the first gold rush. Um now there's even a better gold rush. So so Henry, this uh this question's for you, because again, we're talking about the future. We know the

Career Advice For Data Center Techs

SPEAKER_03 23:51

data centers aren't gonna go away, right? What advice would you give a field tech who's thinking about going to work in a data center?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Oh wow. Um gosh, have a good time. It's gonna be excellent. Um go ahead and get yourself educated. It it really depends. When you're talking about a tech going in there, it depends what level of technician. Are we talking about a network engineer? Are we talking about a cabling uh cable guy?

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Cable and knuckle dragging, knuckle dragging wire monkey.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Listen, um the the best thing you could do, and I have been there from the bottom up installing some of the first servers with an N on there, and I had no clue what they were. They ended up being Netflix. I've been there at the start of many companies just installing servers, routers, equipment, network engines, having no clue what I was installing, just running lots of meters of fiber, and all of a sudden, you know, I hear that it was this company or that company. Uh come come prepared to work hard, put your head down and uh carry the right tools. You've got to have SNPs, you gotta have Velcro, and you gotta have your testers. Make sure you got your power tester, you got your power meter so you could send light. Uh but um I I it's kind of a hard, it's kind of a hard question because uh you're really gonna do what you've been trained to do at a data center. Uh don't get it, don't get in discussions or arguments with the plumbers, don't get in arguments and discussions with the uh electricians. Electricians like to pick on low voltage guys all the time for some reason. They like to they like to butt heads. Don't don't get in deep discussions with them because uh, you know what, it's just not worth it. Shake their hand, have a good attitude. You are in the middle of one of the fastest growing businesses that we have seen in a long time here. And data centers and that low voltage work is not gonna go anywhere. The infrastructure has to be there for AI to continue to grow. So I I hope I'm hoping I'm answering your question. It's just that that is if you're going in there new, go in there with a smile and be happy to get work.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Let me ask you this, Henry. Um, as a as a young technician who wants to move into the data center, what should they learn first? Fiber pathways, testing, bonding and grounding? What should they what skills should they learn first? All of the above.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Whatever you're passionate about, and I would say um become a pirate. Become a pirate, be opportunistic. So if somebody wants to teach you about everything about grounding and bonding, suck it all in. And then you want to learn about fiber because guess what? It's all gonna change. Like you we all have gray hair. Do the details of what we learned in the 80s matter today. Not one iota, not one of the details. I don't you know when was last like you you and I Ed did RS232 and RS45, and we use butterfly tools and we use soldering irons, uh and we use laced? Laced, we use screw terminals, um wire wrapping. None of those skills really do us any good at home, uh at work, maybe if we're at home and fixing the toaster. That's about it. But it's the willingness to learn, and and I think that's what I'll go with, Chuck. Is you know, what made the difference for for me is after I left university, I really didn't know what I was gonna do. And I got into the low voltage cabling energy. It's like you're gonna do data wiring. Well, what the hell is data wiring? I don't know what the hell you're talking about. And every time somebody says, hey, do you want to try something new? It's like, you know, just like Edset's like, yeah, why not, man? Just keep saying yes. Find pathways to yes, and say, hey, you want to teach me control systems? Yes. You know, I'm old, I've got less hair, I've got gray hair, I'm learning all about redundant ring topologies in control networks. And um, you know, one of the things that's blowing my mind is, you know, we've all heard about pawn. We're we're probably all on variations of a pawn network, except for poor Chuck that doesn't have any fiber in his neighborhood. And I was trying to figure out why pawn would be in a data center, and we're looking at applications for pawn in data centers. Like, wait a minute. The detailed application I don't understand, but the concepts I know are helping me do things like out-of-band management, control systems. So be willing to learn, suck it all in, um, but go in there, uh, and I think Ed, you said it, or or or Chuck, also go in there with a critical eye. So if you've got an old guy like us, as a curmudgeon that's, hey, back in my day, Sonny, we always did it that way, ask a guy that thank you for your advice, and I'm gonna go park it off of here. I'm not gonna get rid of it because there might be some good logic behind it. But if odds are, if he's an old curmudgeon and isn't willing to change, the detail isn't important. Look for the underlying theme.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Let me let me ask you this as a follow-up question, uh, Henry. What standards or credentials should somebody looking to do more work in data centers pay attention to?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

I would go after every single one of the Bixie ones, any one of the credentials out there. It's showing that you're willing to learn and try new things. Bixie's got a wide um uh gambit of certifications, um, and they have everything from design to management to field installation, um, outside plant. And you know, go after all of them, take learning. Doesn't mean you're ready to step into hyperscaler one and tell them how to redesign the network. You're not qualified, but what it shows is that you have the ability to learn, that you have the ability to um understand standards, even if they're not industry standards, even if they're just best practices. Um, and it shows that you have process and structure. All right, because the the days of the wild west are gone. You need process, you need structure. To Ed's point, you can't have any waste.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Right. I I I want to follow up on the question you asked me because um uh you caught me off guard at first and I've had a little time to process it. So uh the advice I would give a new technician coming in, it may follow Henry's uh thought process as well. But uh, first of all, respect the facility. You have to respect the facility. Become intimate with all the stuff that that's happening in that facility, but do not become intimidated by what's going on in the facility. Uh uh ask questions, as Henry mentioned. But one of the things that I want you to understand too is that that you have to learn the site rules. You have to learn the methods, the procedures. Know that if labeling is important, you're doing the labeling. If they if they use velcro instead of zip ties, that's what you're doing. But absolutely follow things like lockout tag out. Don't skimp on that. Don't skimp on grounding, don't skimp on that uh mush that they put so that they uh you know the fire stop. Follow the guidelines that are happening there, and you're gonna have a better time. Don't guess, continue improving your skills. That's not the time for you to say, I'm just learning. At that time, you've got a pretty decent job. You're getting paid high money. You better come prepared for what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

I didn't even touch that subject. People working in data centers are making bank right now. Making bank. I got two final questions for each of you. Same question. Uh let me see. I think we'll do Ed first, since I think the last question I sent to Henry. Two questions, Mr. Ed. Um, what is one myth

Myths Transparency And The Next Five Years

SPEAKER_03 31:40

about data centers that you just wish would die? And where does the industry need to get better over the next five years?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Myth is that all data centers are bad. All data centers are the same. All data centers are gonna harm you in some way or another without understanding the nuances. Um one thing the industry could do better is be more transparent, be more upfront. We we have a situation with a data center in a small town that uh when the people found out that a data center was gonna be built, they found out when it had already been passed through the local government that all the designs and everything had happened and nobody had been instructed. So what happened? The people got all together, riled up, had signed, said no data center, and that data center bill got squashed. If you know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about. What the local government did badly there was bad communication. What the the data center company did there, bad communication. What the industry continues to do is provide sales and marketing to regular people, and that doesn't work. They need to allow people to understand the benefits of what the data center can bring. And that goes to the other myth that data centers are all bad and the AI is all bad when people forget that the same people protesting data centers are the same ones saying, I want to get electric cars because they're better for the environment, not knowing how much that electric car interfaces with data centers. You use for all of the anger and protesting and information that you put out there against data centers. You are, as Henry said, you're using data centers. So please understand the tie.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

The platform that they're probably using to communicate the protest is going through a data center. What's it called? Signal or something like that?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

I don't, I, I don't, I don't know. Uh I don't know. I have no issue with people being frustrated about data centers as long as it is an educated, clear debate structured in science and the truth, not in imagination. There are legitimate concerns, as I mentioned before, but people forget that that they they go to myth and and misunderstandings as you ask this question. That's what they focus on and use against data centers, and that doesn't work. You'll never win that argument. Base it on the truth and the facts.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Henry, same two questions to you. What's one myth about data centers you just wish would die, and where do you see the industry going, the data center industry going over the next five years?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

So it feeds into exactly what Ed was saying. They're not all the same. All your concerns are valid. But as much as you quest and want knowledge, um, and it's funny because people want information and then they go to the internet for the information about fighting against the internet. Okay, it's a little goofy. Don't trust anybody blindly, don't trust me, don't trust Ed, don't trust you. Like if you know us, you you'll you'll see that we're altruistic. You know, trust but verify. Um and verify everything. So, you know, just like in the Wild West or you know, in any one of the boom times, there was snake oil salesmen, and and so I I like to always use the Goldilocks and the Three Bears principles. So if I'm gonna ask you to do one thing, remember in Goldilocks and the Three Bears. And um, you know, I'm prepping for a data center conference uh for the EU, and that's exactly the theme. And so I'm I'm giving the audience here a spoiler. I've got three images. Tell me which one is most realistic. It's Goldilocks and the three bears. You know, it's the bed too big, too small, just right. The orange too hot, too cold, just right. But you'll see people with data centers giving a dystopian environment where um you know the anti-data center market is saying, oh my god, the world will end, Terminator will win, dogs and cats will co-mingle, and you know, um, fire will rain down from the skies if you have more data centers. Then you have the marketing people from data centers saying the exact opposite. It's like you are gonna live in a Disney, Disnified um utopia where data's gonna solve all your problems, everybody's gonna be a good actor, you and your family are just gonna spend the whole time having a picnic on the grass while unicorns are brought back to life and they're gonna be frolicking across the grounds, and Skittles will be falling from the sky. And guess what? That's your Goldilocks and the three bears. And the reality is you're gonna have good actors, you're gonna have bad actors. Um, you and you're gonna and it's not necessarily bad from a nefarious standpoint, it's like they might not know what your concerns are, they might not know that you know we all love birds, and there might be a bird um that is endangered. But for example, speaking of endangered birds, there's a data center that I know of that found out during construction there was an endangered bird. So guess what? They they'd already started, they couldn't stop, but they they did stop construction, and they built a whole new habitat and ecosystem for this strange bird, including research to do it. So don't believe the unicorns and skittles falling from the sky. Don't believe the the volcanoes will erupt and you know the the terminators will take over. The truth is somewhere in the middle and engage with your government, hold your government accountable, hold the companies accountable, and engage. That's what I'd ask you to do.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Gentlemen,

Final Thoughts And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_03 37:38

what a great conversation. I I can see this conversation not done yet. We'll probably come on back around to this sometime in the future because I have a feeling it's it's not going away anytime soon. I appreciate you guys coming on the show. Love the opportunity. Nice meeting you. Yeah, nice meeting meeting you, Henry. Chuck.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Always a great pleasure. Thank you.