Did the Luddites Get it Right? Data Center Myths Part 1

We challenge the “cloud is invisible” myth and talk plainly about what a data center really is when it shows up near homes, farms, and water supplies. With Henry Franc and Ed the Old Tech Guy, we separate real infrastructure tradeoffs from internet rumors so you can decide what’s worth opposing and what’s worth improving. 

• why data centers exist and why construction is accelerating 
• what people picture when they hear “data center” and why it is often wrong 
• how “cloud” marketing creates confusion about physical infrastructure 
• common fears about radiation, EMF, diesel generators, noise, and utilities 
• water and cooling basics including closed-loop systems vs evaporative cooling 
• why audits, inspections, and compliance pressure operators to prevent incidents 
• why AI data centers differ from colocation and hybrid facilities 
• why edge computing supports 911, payments, healthcare, and smart homes 
• the tradeoff between power density and massive gains in compute capability 
• how lack of early community outreach fuels “no data centers” movements 

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Housekeeping

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey, our monkeys, welcome to another episode. As we let's talk cable in this week, we're talking about data standards and the minister random people in your backyard. We are connecting on the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind giving us a five-star rating? And if we don't deserve a five-star rating, shoot me an email and let me know what I can do to make this a five-star rating show. Those simple little steps help us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage, and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry. Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, what are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, everywhere I can figure out to send the stream to where you get to ask your favorite RCDD, and you know that's me. Your favorite RCDD questions on installation, design, certification, credentialing. I even do career path questions. But I can hear you now. But check them, check them, check them, what's in action, GPM? I don't want to get into an action. Breathe in. Breathe out. I record them and you can watch them at your convenience. And finally, while this show is free and will always remain free, would you click on that QR code right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can schedule a 15-minute one-on-one call with me after hours, of course. And you can even buy Let's Talk Cabling merchandise.

Why Data Centers Spark Backlash

SPEAKER_04 2:12

So tonight's show is going to be kind of a controversial show, right? Everybody wants the benefits of a data center. They want that Chat GPT, they want that cloud storage. You know, they want to be able to have their smart buildings and their smartphones and everything that goes along with that. But when somebody says, great, not a problem, but we're going to build a data center in your backyard, in your subdivision, suddenly the cloud street address, people start getting uncomfortable. So I got two guests to come on tonight to talk about AI data centers. And so you get the low-down truth to figure out do you really want to oppose it or not want to pose it? I'll let them introduce themselves, but I got Henry Frank, who's who does standard designs for data centers and infrastructure. And I got Ed, the old tech guy, who's got he does a he's got a he's all over the internet. If you look him up, he's all over the place. Does a lot of internet stuff, a lot of low voltage stuff, a lot of network stuff, but he also does car stuff too, which yeah, I do car stuff too, but I just don't film it because I'm not that good at it. So we'll bring him on the show. Welcome, Mr. Ed, and welcome, Mr. Henry. How are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_03 3:19

I'm doing fine, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yeah, I'm doing great as well. Thanks, Chuck. Nice to meet you, Ed. Thank you. So let's start off with the introduction. Uh Henry, who are you? Give us a little bit about your your background experience so that so the audience knows who you your your perspective.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Henry Frank. Um, my title for my day job is a digital automation consultant for data center. So I handle the data center vertical for my organization from a technology perspective. The title isn't the most intuitive, uh, but what it really means is I help orchestrate the response internally and back to the customer from a technology perspective across the various areas of practice, whether that be ICT infrastructure, networking, wireless, cyber, uh platforms, things of that nature. So I sort of sort of the offensive coach, if you will, for our data center team from a technology perspective. And until uh recently, I was the chair of the TIA standards committees, and I've been involved with uh data centers before there was standards, but you know, certainly from the creation of 942 up till its uh recent iteration and the ongoing changes that we're making. Hey Ed, I told you I knew people.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Hey, why don't you go and give yours give yourself an introduction?

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Thank you for inviting me to your great show again. Uh I'm Ed, uh, the old tech guy, as I'm known as my handle on the internet. But I've been in telecommunications networking and in IT uh infrastructure for 30 years uh plus. Uh most of my career has been spent working with the largest tier one providers out in the market. And I've designed a lot of the backhaul uh for many of these data centers. And I work with data centers on a daily basis, which is one of the reasons why this particular show was very interesting to me. Uh I I've also uh helped one of my companies win an Emmy Award as we transmitted the first uncompressed video over the first 10 gig ever, uh, many, many, many years back. I I started in telecommunications and networking in the in the early 90s. So that'll get that'll give you uh an idea. RS232, if you know what that is, then you know where I started. So uh yeah, thanks thanks for bringing me on. I also absolutely work on a lot of things on the internet. I got multiple channels and I talk about tools, tech, DIY, and all the stuff that you need to just have a you know a little better, easier, more funner life is the way I like to do it. And I like to communicate technology and easy to understand methods because I've been in it so long, but I think that the regular guy really needs to understand what's happening out there with technology. We're talking about smart homes. We're talking about how uh the device in our hand, it has become so invasive into everything we do. So when we talk standards and and networking and things of that nature, we have to make it easy to understand for everybody.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Thank you, Mr. Ed. I appreciate that. And when I say Mr. Ed, I don't mean it as a as a insult. I'm from the South. No, it's okay. I'm from the South, and it's it's always Mr. Something or Mrs. Something. So just for those out there thinking, he's he's no, Ed's a very good friend. Ed and I have broken bread together. So we're we're good friends.

Meet The Data Center Pros

SPEAKER_04 6:36

So there you go. So my goal for this segment is to kind of establish why do data centers exist because they've kind of changed. I remember the the first data center I worked in uh is 100% diametrically opposed to what data centers are nowadays. They're exploding, and they're I think I saw a stat somewhere. There's like 3,000, over 3,000 data centers being built right now. Not not running, currently being constructed. That's a lot. And for those who think data centers, you know, you know, they're just IT buildings, there's a there's a lot of they impact everything from roads to bridges to power plants to water to everything. So this whole section, I'm gonna kind of cover that. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna kind of go back and forth. I'll ask Henry a question, then Ed a question. I'll just kind of go back and forth. And and and Henry, before I get started, are you still doing your data center podcast?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

I am. Um I'm doing data center diaries, not quite as polished as you are with uh with the programs, so still figuring out how to uh do the video, and I've been doing uh a mixture of that and some written content. So there's more stuff coming because I I want to do the same thing that both of you are doing, because I've watched both of your channels and have not necessarily lay person discussions, but honest discussions where there's no commercial intent. You know, all three of us have day jobs and and we're we're we're supporting our organizations, um, but uh it gives us the ability, all three of us, to have very valuable, unsponsored content. I mean, I mean, not to blow smoke, Chuck, but I mean this is the reason why I did it because I saw the impact that you had and loved participating and saw the need relative to the data center. So, yes, I started data center diaries. Um, and one day when I become comfortable enough with my content, I'm gonna be showing the bloopers and the outtakes.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

There's a few. I I love doing the bloopers and the outtakes. They don't always make it to the air, but that's a part of the process. It truly is. And when you say polished, yeah, okay, so you've got we've got to be careful that we're polished because you're gonna see this conversation in real time, but the audience is gonna see a highly polished, edited version of this, which makes me sound like I'm way more articulate than I actually am. So, and I've got 300 videos. So the more you do, the more easy, the more it easy you get in front of the camera. You've got this, brother. You've got

What People Get Wrong

SPEAKER_04 9:07

it. So the first question I want to ask you is so let's talk about the average person. Did they hear a data center? What and or they see a data center documentary on YouTube. What is that what does that person usually get wrong about that idea of a data center?

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Well, um my number one struggle is because I'm an earnest guy, I like to use comedy and sarcasm. And when I'm doing that, I'm not meaning it to be denigrating at all. Um but I'm trying to make it lighthearted. But in in today's world, sometimes that can offend people. So my number one issue when people think of a data center, they think of this dystopian throwback, the industrial revolution, where it is literally sucking the energy out of the air, pulling all the water out of the ground, polluting everything, just destroying jobs. And the reality is, because you know, I I go all around the country and I travel with my friends and my family. I bet no most people, when they drove by a data center on their road trip, on their family trip, if it wasn't for the sign outside the door, they'd have no clue that it was uh a data center. They'd just think, oh my god, it's a really big warehouse. Or what are all those big warehouses doing out there? And they're relatively uh benign, there's no smoke billowing, there, you know, for the most part, there's not intense amounts of noise, despite some of the things that you see on the internet. And I I think what most people get wrong is they really don't know what a data center is, and because all the data center companies are in a race to develop and to bring services to everybody, um they don't spend enough time in community outreach, in my personal opinion. Um and I don't think they do it nefariously, I think it's obnoxious consequence if they live it every day so that they know what they're dealing with, um, and and they don't tend to have those conversations on a daily basis. And I'd really love uh to be able to share these things because every time I've worked with a data center owner, going to even the the top companies in the Magnificent 7 from a hyperscale perspective, um, their secret sauce is their secret sauce. Right. But their outcomes and how they measure themselves are very transparent.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

So yeah, I think you're 100% on this on the money when you said that they don't do it out of nefarious reasons. I I look at it this way. It comes, you know, this comes from having a podcast for five years talking about cabling and talking to professionals who do cabling. I usually run into two camps of people. The people who love what they do and want to learn all the time, and then there's the people who don't, you know, I'm I'm sorry, it's it's five o'clock. I'm I'm not thinking about my day job, right? And on top of that, another layer on top of that is most of the people doing data centers are somewhat of a level of a of an engineer. And engineers typically don't make good podcast people because you have to be, you know, you have to be loud, obnoxious, lively, and that's most engineers, except for you, Henry, most all the other engineers I interview, they talk in monotone voices and they can't get any kind of emotion out of them. You just they don't make good guests, they got great information, but they don't make great guests. So I think that's probably why, you know, here it's funny because I I honestly think when the people think when they hear Davis centers, I'm gonna show my age now. I'm gonna see if you guys are as old as me. They think of Hal, right? Hal from um um was it space, not that wasn't Space Odyssey? What was it?

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Um it was 2001 Space Odyssey.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly. See, so you guys are as old as me. And one more time, if you don't know what Hal is, look up that movie and look up Hal. You'll get you'll get my point there. And I got a question for you. Um uh what do you when you hear, when you talk to regular people, and because you talk to because you talk to you know all kinds of people, not just technology-based people, um, when you hear data centers coming to town, what do you think that they picture?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I uh I want to backtrack that question just a little bit before uh we we we we answer that. I think that marketing and sales has done an excellent job in convincing people that technology is a literal cloud. They think it's invisible, that it doesn't have to land, that it doesn't need a place to stay stable and then be sent out. They don't picture like waterworks where you need uh stations where waterworks have to clean the water, move the water, and things of that nature. So marketing and sales has, as while it's done a great job, it's also done a disservice telling people how this actually works. I think that they miss, they they they have misconceptions of um radiation, right? People think about radiation. I've seen these comments online, and people have said, oh, I don't want a data center near me because it's gonna provide radiation and it's gonna be, there's gonna be dead animals, and deer are gonna run away, and there's not gonna be any butterflies. They think about diesel generators and dirty gasoline everywhere. They think about loud noises and high electric bills and corporations making billions of dollars. People are so concentrated on corporations making billions of dollars for some reason. But what I am gonna say is this when you live in any large metropolis and you're walking downtown for a few miles, you've probably passed maybe about six to ten data centers within those large buildings. And you never knew they were there unless they were running the diesel generator. But then again, many businesses have diesel generators, so you don't know it's just theirs. Um they they they don't even know it's there. And there's a large misconception with this deep need to draw a tonnage of water into data centers, never understanding that there's closed loop systems, no water systems, and of course there's the the regular old school data center hotels that, yeah, they use water, they use lots of it, but that doesn't mean it pollutes the water. It doesn't mean that the outcome of that water is polluted. And there's a lot of misconception out there from people. Uh locally here where I'm at, there's there's there was a request to build a data center in an old mall that is just gonna be dead wasted space. It's not gonna go anywhere. Data center came by and said we'd like to build there, and people uh got frustrated and protested because they have this misconception out there. What they don't understand is that if they want their credit card to swipe and run fast, if they like 911 services to work well, if they like their smart home to perform fast, you need that deep edge caching that's gonna happen as close to you as possible. And the only way to do that reliably is data centers.

The Cloud Myth And Real Fears

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Spot on, spot on, Ed. I'm just gonna bring up a point, and exactly what you're talking about. Sometimes people don't like the way data-based companies work. And I don't mean database companies as in like a glorified spreadsheet. They hear a lot of myths and misconceptions about AI hallucinations. Um, we've watched the Terminator way way too many times where we expect technology to take over. Um and and maybe um they've had a bad experience with their credit card company or with the phone company or the TV company, and so they conflate the use of data with the data companies, and and and they're two different things. So, you know, it everybody having worked for the telephone company, I can tell you everybody loves to hate the telephone company. But ask them to give up the telephone company and they'll say, What are you crazy? And it's the same thing with with data. I mean, the the the only reason they're building so much so many data centers is because we keep consuming and processing and making use of so much more data that you have to do it. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, they're not waiting to see if they'll they'll make money doing this. The demand is there. The reason there's a demand is because we all watch YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and threads and apps. And to your point, all the 911 services, all your medical services. Um, like we keep consuming data, um, but because people aren't in the industry, they don't understand the reference. I mean, you two are both old enough. Remember digital equipment vax, mainframe computers? They were the MacDaddy back in the late 80s when I started working with Ethernet, and I had to go back in time, and just for a thought experiment, um I went back to a digital VAX. And you know, that was the MacDaddy. It drew about five kilowatts of power, and it had X amount of processing, um, and then I compared it to a modern AI rack. And so, yeah, a modern AI rack uses 20 times more power, needs 20 times more cooling, but our data processing has got so different over the last 40 years that they don't even use the same measurements anymore. I had to go through three systems of measurements and keep translating. So if you look at the the the comparables for a uh a DEC VAX from the 1980s versus today, yes, it uses 20 times more power. That that's an unfortunate side effect. But the data processing power of a modern GPU rack is about five billion with a B, capital B, five billion times more capable from a data processing for a 20 times usage of utilities. And you know, really, if we're complaining about data centers, we have to look in the mirror, and I think it harkens back to um uh the well-intentioned but ill-informed Luddite movement during the Industrial Revolution. And I don't use Luddite as a pejorative, I use it in this dictionary format where it's like just don't understand. Right? Well, there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

I would like to go ahead, go ahead, Ed. I'm sorry, Chuck. No, go ahead. I just wanted to add, I wanted to add one more thing, and I don't want to derail the show, but I am gonna add this piece is that um data centers, one thing that people misunderstand is that all data centers are not built the same. An AI data center is built very differently with different technology than a larger data center hotel type of data center, right? Then you have some mid-tier data centers in between that do both duties. Uh that's one misconception the public has. The other is that there is a true race to AI. And I know you've talked a lot about AI out there, and at the end of the day, there is a pushback, whether it be political, whether it be geopolitical, or how whatever's going on, there is a pushback for us not to build data centers at times. And that could hurt us in the race to AI. Every time there's been a major technology shift, we uh uh in the in the North American portion of the world have landed on top. This is one of those races that is as important as the Industrial Revolution, where if we don't land on top, we really have to wonder who is and what will they do with that technology. Now, that doesn't mean I'm pro one way or the other. I'm simply stating at the end of the day, who do you want to win and how bad do you want to win? Because if we end up on the bottom end of this, it could mean higher bills, higher everything for how we uh for the way we live. And uh I I don't think that people understand that that's a true concern.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

So data centers have been around for a long time. I mean, like you said, they've been around for a long, long time. And it's only been, I think, recently, where we started hearing, you know, hot button issues coming

Water Cooling Audits And Community Trust

SPEAKER_04 21:32

out of all this. Right? What do you think is causing people to be more aware of data centers and be more willing to solicit to their their local county, city, state governments to say no data centers in our backyard?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Part of that is a lack of understanding. I I I really think it is, um of what we do as data centered. Builders because the three of us on the call, we build the networks, we build the buildings, we don't design the software or do the applications. So I think it's a matter of understanding. Um and and I've seen the cycle go on, and it's almost like um fight or flight. They're unsure of what's going on, they hear there's a lot of noise, they're hearing they hear there's a lot of objection, and it's almost like I've got this hot button that I'm gonna address, and then as somebody addresses that proactively, they automatically go to the second, then they go to the third, and then they go back again. I mean, we talked, Ed, about coolant. You know, every data center that I I know of being built now is on a closed loop, which means you know, you charge it with water, and your data usage is less until you have to refresh it. But then you have to you have to treat the water going in, you have to treat the water going out piece. That's okay. Far more efficient than evaporative systems, where you still have to treat the water going out, uh coming in. So you're treating water coming in, you're heating it up, and then letting it evaporate. So it goes into the universe, goes into the atmosphere. So is it using water? Yes. It's using water and it's using evaporate. So is it wasteful of water in its liquid form? Yes, but it's returning water in its vapor form to the environment in a clean method, and it's not polluted. And in a closed loop soup system, they have to filter the water out when they have to recharge. And again, it it it's all up. I don't know of anybody that's building a data center of any size today that isn't including water treatment, you know, like and I don't mean to pick on other industries because it wouldn't be fair for me, because I'm not an expert in heavy manufacturing or petroleum refinery or or or mining. Um but you know, if you ask me if I want a data center next door or an open pit mine or uh meat processing facility or in any other sort of uh heavy industry, and only because I don't know about them. Because I don't know about them, I'd pick a data center any day of the week. I'm sure somebody in that industry is gonna say, yes, but we don't like waste either. So we're gonna go and make it as efficient as possible because we don't like waste, because we don't like um leaving garbage laying around the the yard, because for the most part, we're all decent human beings.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Waste also costs money. Yeah. People people don't people forget about that. There's waste cleanup that a data center would have to do, and especially if they get caught, there's a cost there. And remember that many data centers are also um uh uh uh they have access to uh for for government works, government circuits, government telecommunications networks, again, E911, things of that nature. They're all in those data centers. Uh they do get audited. They do get checked. You fail that inspection. I've I've I've failed many an inspection. Grounding, cabling, uh leaking, leaking uh uh you know, air conditioning system, something of that nature. And boy, there were people, executives either getting written up, fired, or or all the way down. You don't, you do not fail those inspections, whether they be government, local, municipality, and or internal. A lot of people don't know the how strict and stringent the policies and uh um concerns are within the business to making sure that we uh uh uh appease the EPA and we appease uh the the you know safety concerns of not only the community, because all you need is one data center to have an issue to make a big news story. And I think that's where the misconception is. And our friends, again, in sales and marketing, while did us a service with the cloud wording, did us a disservice in not doing a good job in explaining how diligent we are in taking care of this network that we've created, how fragile it is, but at the same time, how well it's take it's been taken care of and continues to be taken care of. We care about our environment, we care about the community, we make sure that it's not there. Again, lots of data centers all over downtown, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, you name the place. You you pass data centers all the time. Sometimes in buildings that you think are historical, they would have been torn down if there were not a data center in there. So that that just goes to show how much the public was not informed. That was the big mistake in sales and marketing. You involved the community last. You told them we're doing this instead of bringing them up front in the beginning or in the middle of the process to say, here's how it works, here's what we're doing, and this benefits you by bringing jobs, by bringing a cleaner area, right? Data centers can be very clean, right? You gotta carry, you gotta take care of the grounds, you gotta take care of that land. Um, you you you you're gonna get you're gonna get all these benefits, deep edge caching, better internet in your area, better access for small businesses to have a cheap, cheaper, lower internet costs. All these things completely were never told to the public. Instead, on the other side, we have businesses that are not necessarily data centers who have had chemical spills, who have had hazards. And when when the community hears of data centers and things of that nature, their mind goes there. They hear glycol. Wow, that sounds like a deep chemical that could cur that could hurt people. What is that?

SPEAKER_04 27:58

It's in the radiative regard.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

They hear radiation, EMF. I had a discussion with somebody one day and I explained to them that their concerns about radiation on a data center were ill-gotten or misunderstood because not only is much of the cabling shielded and grounded, but sometimes the lead paint in those buildings, the older buildings, will shield. But let's say that that EMF were to escape. Standing outside and looking at that data center, you are taking ionizing radiation from the sun that could affect you much more negatively than any EMF that could potentially escape that data center.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

I I was talking to a guy uh who uh we talked we're doing an episode about cable dressing, and he he works in data centers. And like I said, it's been a few decades since I've done work in data centers. But I asked him, you know, on what you see in data centers, he actually estimates them. I asked him, when you see data centers, what percentage is copper and what percentage is fiber? And he says, well, right now, probably 75% fiber, 25% copper. And there's going to be a day where data centers will be 99% fiber. And fiber does not emit electromagnetic interference. It just does not. So I think that that kills that problem. You know, so but yeah, you know we you're right. We have been sold a promise. You know, data centers can make our modern life easier. You know, we're gonna be able to navigate so we don't have to listen to our wife giving us directions while we're driving, right? We're gonna be able to write your your kids are gonna be able to write their school papers with Chad GPT and get A's, right? Um, but you know, what happens is the minute that building starts getting closer and closer to somebody's house or their farm, or maybe even the water supply, that's when the conversation changes fast. That's why I think a lot of communities are saying it even happened here. I I live in Florida and they just passed a thing saying no data centers, period. And we're we're mostly a an agriculture, agricultural type of type of community. But you know, there's one one example that comes to my mind. It was um Monterey Park in California, and the voters out there approved a permanent data center ban after enough local people got them and said, you know, hey, no more of this stuff. We don't want this anymore.

Part One Wrap And Next Week

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Hey, this is Editing Chuck. You've just finished watching part one of a two-part series. Make sure you watch next week to see us finish this great conversation. Till then, knowledge is power.