Cable Dressing Done Right

Cable dressing turns into a fight fast, but the real question is how to keep installs clean without hurting performance, PoE reliability, or warranty compliance. We compare old school lacing and zip ties to modern Velcro and cable comb tools, and we explain why data centers now demand neat, traceable bundles. 
• why cable dressing triggers strong opinions on job sites 
• how cable management changes from telco wax string to zip ties to Velcro 
• why over cinching can deform cable and increase crosstalk risk 
• how standards differ from manufacturer warranty requirements 
• why PoE heat pushes smaller bundle sizes and better planning 
• how outdated Cat 6A “randomize everything” advice still spreads online 
• what makes data centers stricter than typical commercial installs 
• how estimating cable dressing time up front balances speed and craftsmanship 
• the shift from copper to fiber in data centers and what that changes 
• hand dressing versus puck systems and why repeatability matters 
• how numbered cable comb tools can improve panel landings and rework 
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Transcript

Welcome And What Cable Dressing Means

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey one of monkeys, welcome to another episode of Let's Talk Cable Links. This week we're talking about cable dressing.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Stay connected. Do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers. No, no, no. Submitted by apprentices, installers, technicians, project foremen, project managers, estimators, designers, customers, even IT personnel. We are connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind leaving us a five-star rating? Those simple little steps help us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage, and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry. Wednesday nights, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, what are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, uh LinkedIn, YouTube, everywhere I can figure out to send a live stream to, we get to ask your favorite RCDD. And you know that's me. Your favorite RCDD questions on installation, design, project management. I even do career path questions. Chuck, I'm drunk, I'm drunk. I don't want to get into the night. Relax. Breathe in. Breathe out. I record them so you can watch them at your convenience. And finally, while this show is free, we'll always remain free. If you find value in this content, you click on the QR code right there. You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even schedule a one-on-one call with me after hours, of course. You can even buy Let's Talk Cabling merchandise.

Why Cable Dressing Starts Arguments

SPEAKER_00 2:10

One of the few subjects in our industry that automatically start an argument is cable dressing. Should you cable dress? Should you not cable dress? Ah, just leave it in the cable trace. It looks fine. That's a lot of work. Oh, but if you cable dress, it's gonna cost alien cross talk. Yeah, cable dressing. It starts arguments all day long and twice on Sunday. But another thing to argue too, for those who like the cable dress is do you do it by hand? Or do you do a 3D puck? Or do you go buy a really cool cable dressing system like the uh like the honeycomb? We're gonna settle that all tonight with one person who's been around quite a long time and he can help us settle this argument. Keith, welcome to the show, my friend. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Thanks, Chuck. I'm good. How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I'm doing

Guest Intro And Data Center Reality

SPEAKER_00 3:02

fantastic. Why don't you give us the 15-minute sh uh uh 50,000-foot view, who you are, how many years of experience you have, and why should the audience listen to you?

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Well, starting out, uh I've been in the cabling industry since uh late 90s, early 2000s. Started out as a uh as a helper in the field and kind of worked my way up um into project management. Currently I'm heading up the technology department for uh GCATS in Dallas, Texas. They've very uh graciously allowed me to do my the podcast today from my office. So I just want to give a shout out to them. But yeah, I've been involved in in uh I like to say if it's got a low voltage cable on it, I've probably pulled it, touched it, designed it, or you know, um worked with it. Uh I'm always willing to learn new things. I feel like that's really big in our industry is don't get stuck like I just pull cable or I just terminate fiber or whatever. I've always been that kind of guy that wants to learn something new uh and learn from co-workers. And um, I even learn from my texts. Sometimes my text will show me new things, and I'm like, wow, that's cool. We should do that. Um and so why you should listen to me, I I um I don't know that you should listen to me, but I do have some advice and and some experience out there. Obviously, the white hair uh shows that, but you know, I've just I've been in every kind of facility um and and the way things are nowadays with um data centers in in particular. Um they have dedicated engineers that basically live in those data centers, and they have nothing better to do for better or for worse. It's it's good for the data center, um, and it's good for us to hone our skills, but they will pick apart basically every part of the install, which is by design. Um, these things are high high density. Um, and so you know, there's a lot of cable dressing that goes on, uh a lot of you know uh pop to pop. There's a lot of you know, from cabinet to cabinet uh where cables go, and they're very exacting on where those cables land. And then for troubleshooting, uh having them dressed in a bundle uh where they're very easy to identify and trace is is becoming more and more prevalent over the years. It used to be kind of a uh it was like, do we have the time to dress it? We'll dress it. Now we're getting to the point where they're demanding that we dress cables.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

If I did my math right and and according to my hat, I love math. So according to my math thinking cap, you have almost 30 years experience. That's a good bit of experience. And I love your attitude because nobody in this industry knows everything. Everybody in this industry can always learn off somebody else. And everybody in this industry all starts at the exact same place on day zero. No knowledge. So I think right there, there it speaks a lot to your personality and your and your ability to uh adapt and overcome. So you've been doing this for 30 years, and I've been doing it for 45 years. That's not a measuring contest because I've been out of the field for a long time. You're still in the field, so your experience is way more valuable than mine. How would you say cable management looks like during the early days when you got in the industry 30 years ago compared to what you're doing now?

Old School Methods Wax String To Zip Ties

SPEAKER_03 6:48

You know, I was thinking about that earlier, Chuck. I was actually trying to find my lacing tool. Um, it's buried at the bottom of a tool bag somewhere. But uh, for those that don't know, um back in the day in the telco, uh we'd be dressing, you know, 100, 200 pair of cables, um, and we use wax string. Um, and we do like a you could do like a single knot hitch or running hitch. Um, and we had a special tool. I think it was called a J tool, isn't that what it was called, Chuck? I think so, yes. And we'd use that to create a half hitch, and it made for some really nice uh bundling. Um now that was particularly with uh Cat 3, which didn't have the twist, or if it had a twist, it was very minor. And you could crank down on that stuff and not mess and not uh create impedance and stuff like that. So from that, you know, uh that really dates you, right? Talking about wax string. Um I don't know that many people would know what we're talking about there. But uh, and then you know, zip ties came along and uh those were cool. And, you know, um the big challenge there was teaching everyone to flush cut them uh so that they're not little daggers sticking out of a bundle, right? Um it but then we discovered when we moved into the testing phase um that you know you want your stuff to look tight, nice and tight, right? So they're going and crank down on these zip ties, and you can see a visible uh indentation in the cable. And a lot of the manufacturers were like, hey man, uh don't do that. And it was okay, my experience, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Chuck. But my experience was they were okay with the zip ties for a while until you know they were uh wanting to warranty you do 20, 25-year warranties on cable plants, and then you go to certify that cable is not passing. Um, and cinching that cable down like that can immediately affect your your testing. If it doesn't, it will over time. I feel like it was in the 2010s. Um, they were talking about you know pushing everybody over to uh doing bundles with Velcro. And uh that's kind of a 50,000-foot view of of you know uh cable dressing. I'd love to know if if there were some other uh methods that that you were working with back in the day, Chubb.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So so back in the day, we had to uh we used ladders. We would take a ladder and we'd set it up right to next door dressing cable, and it was going into the top hatch panel, we put it through the top square. It was going through the second panel, we put it through the second square, and the third one goes through the third square.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Does you have the electrical tape going down the middle?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Oh yes, oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why I said, you know, even though I got 44 years experience, I've been out of the field for gosh, 15, 16 years now in my with my current day job.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

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Standards Warranties And Over Cinching

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And you were talking about the tire abs, you know, so you're right. I mean, cat three, you know, which we used to install all the time, everywhere, um, you could crank down on that thing. I mean, literally crank down on it. Um, when you got into cat 5e and cat six, then we started worrying about crosstalk between the pairs inside the cable. That's called internal internal interference. So when you over cinch with a tie wrap, it crushes the jacket and brings those pairs closer together, makes them more likely to interfere with each other. Now you actually brought up a good point. Um, you talked about um tie wraps and/or velcro. If you go by what the standards say, now the standard doesn't specifically call out tie wraps, but it says, you know, I can't remember the term it uses. I'll insert it in the video right here. But when using the the cables, whatever you use in the bundle the cables, it should not be over cinched, right? So you don't crush a cable. So according to the standards, the way that I interpret it, you can use tie wraps or velcro, as long as you don't cinch the jacket, right? That was that's that's one of the biggest differences between you know the 90s and the 80s because compared to now. But you're right, some manufacturers will tell you they want velcro only on their cable in order to get the warranty. So the question you really gotta ask yourself as a technician is Am I going for the manufacturer warranty? And if you are, then you gotta do it the way the manufacturer wants it done. If you're doing it per the standards, then you gotta go by the way the standard says. That kind of changes things a little bit, right? So when when uh when we change when we transition from cat 5e to cat 6 to cat 6a, we kind of talk about the old school practices.

PoE Heat And Why Bundle Size Matters

SPEAKER_00 12:17

You know, me with the ladder and the electrical tape, right? You know, you got larger cable diameter bundles, and you know, you gotta worry about air getting around them, you gotta worry about PoE. How does that affect the way you're dressing cable now?

SPEAKER_03 12:30

The first thing that comes to mind is smaller bundles, right? Like I've seen some ginormous 48 uh cable bundles in the past. Um, so the first thing we did when the higher uh wattage of PoE came out is we went down to smaller bundles of 24. Um, and then we also have the constriction on Cat 6A, um, where most of those manufacturers recommend leaving it loose. So um if we know that we it's it's always a negotiation with the customer, right? If they say, hey, I want my Cat 6A and I want them all bundled real tight, we say, hey, it's recommended not to do that. Um, but we will do it for you. Here are some things to consider. Um, how much PoE are you pushing through those cables? Um and and you know, what does that look like for you in the future, right? Because we know technish uh technology changes constantly. And PoE is getting uh higher, not lower, right? You get PoE plus plus plus plus plus plus. It just keeps going up and up. So, you know, that's something that when you're negotiating with a customer or or helping design to keep those things in mind have been my experience, and to just be very well aware of what's going to be on the other end of that cable and what is pushing.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

That's actually a great point, Keith, because you really should have that conversation with the customer. Um, I have a feeling that a lot of commercial installs aren't going to care whether you cable comb it or not. Data centers are going to care. Um, and and the thing is, is when you look at performance and bundling, you you mentioned about keeping the bundles small. Absolutely. In fact, the the Bixie recommendation is 24 or less. Um because you don't know what kind of devices are gonna be hanging off the ends two years from today. I I had this conversation with somebody not too long ago because he said, I like dressing in 48s because it matches up with the panels. I'm like, that's way too many cables for PoE. He goes, but Chuck, they're not doing PoE. Like, right now they're not doing PoE, but you don't know what they're doing two years down the road, right? And now you got 48 bundles, you start putting PoE across a lot of that. Now you can heat the bundles up, as we know. Cable doesn't like attain the cable doesn't like heat that shows up in a form of attenuation. Most of the manufacturers, I can't say all of them, but all the ones I've ever talked to, when they do their worst-case scenario testing, they will cable comb, you know, seven cables to do alien crosstalk testing, the maximum 295 feet, and then test it. That way they know if you cable comb the whole entire way, it'll still warranty or not. Um again, I can't say that for every manufacturer, but I know the two or three that I've talked to, they that's what they do.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yeah, for sure. That'd be a good um almost kind of solution, because you know, when we we're heavy on social media, right? Um, and every time I post a video, we haven't really talked too much about the honeycomb yet, but every time I post a video of someone who's used a honeycomb or one of my guys using a honeycomb, uh there's always someone in the comments, attenuation, detenuation. Um, and I've even I've even uh like added you in a few um uh comment sections just to be like, hey Chuck, you want to jump in here? And I know you have better things to do than get on social media and and argue with No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I love doing that kind of stuff. I love educating people. If I if if you if you tag me in a comment and I didn't respond, it wasn't because I saw it and made the conscious chis, the conscious decision to ignore it, it's because I didn't see it. Because I get I get stuff thrown at me from all different directions sometimes, and I don't see everything. So yeah, you you've got me you've you've got my my contact information. If you if you ever tag me on something and you absolutely want me to address it, there's you know, reach out you know via the other methods you know how to get a hold of me. Say, Chuck, can you respond to this? I'll jump all over that because you're right. This comes up all the time. Because what happened was when Cat 6A first came out and we jumped to that 500 megahertz, we were finding that that higher frequencies was causing a lot of crosstalk problems internally and externally. So a lot of the manufacturers went to the okay, well, you can't cable comb, you have to randomize it, right? To get rid of those kind of situations. But they they changed the way they make the cable, they changed the way that they they put splines in them now, they they change the orientation of the pairs, they do all kinds of things, and now it still will perform into 500 megahertz even if you cable comb it. But the problem is what happens is some technician sat in a class 10 years ago and they told them you gotta randomize it. So they they keep applying it, they keep applying it all the time, right? And then what'll happen is because you know, technicians they love using chat GPT, they love using the internet, and they'll get on there and say, Well, look, here's a fluke thing that says you shouldn't address your cables. What they fail to mention is that fluke, uh, it's it's called their FAQ, frequent frequently asked questions. What they forget to mention is that article is like 11 years old. And that's an eternity in our industry. An eternity though. It's no longer valid anymore. But yeah, absolutely. You know, it's it's it, you know, if I don't ever respond to something, it's not because I'm ignoring your your text message because you know I've got a lot on my plate and I missed yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

It's it's it's one of those things you can choose to engage or not. A lot of times I'm just like, cool, man. Um, because I just I've seen, you know, I mean, we have a DSX uh versive two that we test all our cable plants with. Um, and that's like the I think it's the newest fluke. Um, I know we paid a lot of money for it. Um and we dress every one of our cable plants and we test every one of our cable plants. Um the the crux is like like I was if I could go out into my warehouse, lay down 300 feet or uh you know 300 feet of of cable tray and run 48 cables, bundle them all up and test them, I would. We do it every day in data centers, but then the problem with the data centers is you whip that phone out and start taking videos, you're off the job.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Yeah, so there is there is a case in point, and or it happens every day. It's just we can't take videos of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah, I see that a lot of times too. And you people send me pictures all the time, and they're like, feel free to use them. Like, do you have permission from the owner? Yes, send it to me because I want to see it before I post it. But you know, it's funny you mention it because I had you ship me one of your honeycombs, right? And uh, and I ordered some cable, and uh it came in right before my mom passed away. So I got the cable, I got stuff. So probably within the next month or so, I'm gonna lay out seven cables and

Cable Combing Myths And Outdated Advice

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I'm gonna keep use the honeycomb. I'm gonna use it against the old 3D pre-printed one. I'm also I've even got a Gennard cable one in here somewhere, and I'm gonna talk about you know which was easier to use, right? And then I'm gonna test it with a certifier. And I've even got um Steve Cowles, who used to work for AEM, and he's now retired, but he lives over in Orlando. He's gonna come over and we're gonna run this cable through the thing so we can show, look, you can cable comb. You can because they've changed it. You know, it's it's our industry's always evolving, always evolving. So let me ask you this because you said you're doing a lot of data center

Real World Testing And Data Center Rules

SPEAKER_00 20:10

work now, right? What are some of the differences you see when it comes to cable dressing between commercial office buildings and data centers?

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Oh man, so data centers are constantly innovating, right? I mean, they're they they want they're moving to all the high density things, they want everything, you know, they want as much room in those in those cabinets as they can get. Um so I mean, we're seeing things like they're putting um, oh, it's the ComScope, and the name of it escapes me. But they're leaving the patch panels out of the cabinets, mounted to the to the ladder, the cable tray, um, just so they can have that extra U or two

Commercial Versus Data Center Expectations

SPEAKER_03 20:56

U's or whatever in these cabinets. So yeah, the hide, the high density thing is is the big, big push that we're seeing right now. Uh, digital realty here in Dallas has several data centers. Uh, and GCATS, we have a project where all we're doing is pulling out the old cabinets and putting in new high-density cabinets. Um, so that is the biggest thing in the current data centers that have been open for years that I see is the transition to high density everything, high density fiber. Uh, they want the copper out of the rack. Um yeah, and we do uh GCAS does electrical as well. So um we're doing, you know, we're we're redoing our UPSs, our whip runs, um, and I mean there's so many things that are and it's constantly evolving. It's a high density thing for sure. You don't see that there very much in commercial applications. The one thing that you do see in commercial is we're constantly losing real estate, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

That that that keep that Keith, that's a tail as old as time, right there, buddy. I've been dealing with that since 1985.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

I don't think that's ever going to change. So I do see that and a benefit to using some high density products in commercial real estate. We're always the last, last, but we're the first, what do they say? The first ones to cry and the last ones to know.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

You know, low voltage in particular or limited energy is uh kind of a last thought for folks, which blows my mind because your business isn't going to run without it. But then that what that what that means, what does that translate to us as the field guys? Well, it means we probably don't have our 10 by 10 room like we need. So now we're stuck throwing a backboard up in a mop closet, trying to cram four or five switches and four or five patch panels in a wall mount cabinet. Um and then so once you start doing that and you start kind of compressing everything, then it becomes even more important to dress and be organized. The more high density uh gear, whatever, the more stuff you're trying to cram into anything, the more organized it needs to be. And that's that's kind of where my thought process was um with the advent of the data centers and everything going high density, you need to be able to trace a cable uh, you know, as far as you can without having to, you know, unplug it, tone it, test it, whatever. Um, and then if it's more organized, uh your you know, your everything else kind of falls in line, right? Because we're the first ones in the rack most of the time. So if we can go in there and kind of dictate in neatness and order, uh, I've always found that usually the people that come in behind, I say usually, but the people that come in behind you, they like, oh, somebody put some effort into this, so I'm gonna try to make my stuff look good too. Yeah, now I'm talking about feelings.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

What you're talking about is craftsmanship. That's exactly what you're talking about. That's there's there's two, you know, you know this well as I do, Keith. There's two types of people in this industry. The people who just show up from eight to five, they're collecting a paycheck, they don't care. When they get home, they just you know want to drink their their McDuff's beer and forget about life until 8 a.m. tomorrow. And then there's the other side of that coin, like you and me, we we are continuous learners. Now, I'm not gonna say that I sit down 24-7 and watch low voltage stuff all the time and learn, but I do spend a lot of time above and beyond trying to learn new technologies, learn what people are doing, so I can learn something a little bit better. So, you know, it just usually falls one of the two categories. And I think I think that's what causes a lot of conflict, right? That when you see the people arguing about, you know, should you cable dress or not cable dress, you know, one side will say, well, you know, it takes too much time, the customer's not going to pay for that. And then the other side's gonna say, like, for example, like you were just saying, data centers, a lot of those guys, they like that because you know it makes their data center look better. What are your thoughts on balancing speed versus dressing, i.e., uh craftsmanship?

Speed Versus Craftsmanship And Estimating Time

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Obviously, dressing a cable bundle does take more time, right? I mean, there's no argument there. The speed can can come in in many different ways. I mean, first of all, it's got to be estimated correctly, right? When I know you talk about that a lot in your podcast. Um, as a senior project manager at GCATS, when I build a quote, I put time in for my ER and TR build-outs uh for cable dressing, cable management. So it I think it starts there, right? And then once it gets into the field, um it's your tools.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Well, we before we talk about honeycomb, I do want to ask you one question. Because the question I want to ask you is, and because you have way more experience right now on this than I do, because you live you live and work in data centers now. I just teach people inside of data centers. What percentage, you know, do you say is copper cable plant and what percentage is fiber cable plant?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Oh, that's a good one. It's changing. It is definitely changing. Um I would say back in oh man, 2012, I think I probably worked in my first data center. Um it was probably a uh uh 60-40 mix being 60 copper, 40% fiber. Man, if I had to put a number on it now, I'd probably say 70% fiber, 30% copper. Yeah, it's it's definitely a changing. Just I just notice as our quotes go out, there's less and less copper and there's a lot more glass on it than there used to be.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

And higher counts too. I mean, some of the cable counts are getting ridiculous now, just for for especially for data centers. But let's let's go and talk about cable dressing. You know, we first start off doing by hand, and there you still see some people in the social media platform saying that they prefer to dress by hand.

Hand Dressing Strengths And Weaknesses

SPEAKER_03 27:05

That is awesome. I wish I could do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Let's talk about the hand dressing first.

Copper Shrinks Fiber Grows In Data Centers

SPEAKER_00 27:08

What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of doing it by hand?

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I think with doing it by hand, you get more of a tactile feel on it, right? Um, you're you're constantly engaged with the cable. Uh, one of the things that the manufacturers do look for, uh, depending on the cable plant, quantity cables, um, and the spend, is they'll they'll send an engineer out to inspect that plant, that cable plant, before they give you your uh your warranty. And they're looking specifically on those cables. One of the things they're looking for is is that cable marred, right? Is it is it blemished? Uh so you know our our typical uh cat cat six blue, um if you get too rough with it, yeah, give witness lines where you got too rough with it. Yep, yeah. So, and I we call it burning it, but um so with your with your hands, I feel like that's probably not gonna happen. You're not you're not, I mean, I you could, but you'd almost have to try, right? And I was to say, for me, I'm horrible at dressing cables. I mean, I would say horrible. It just doesn't, for me, I I can't do it as well with my hands as I can with a cable dresser. But if man, I'd love to see somebody, you know, because I'm I'm pushing this honeycomb thing, and I would love to see somebody do a bundle of cable by hand um with no divers as neat as a cable comb. I would watch that video.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

After the show, we should reach out to uh Sean Rep. And uh, because Sean Rep is a I think I told you when you let me and I did our pre-interview call, Sean Rep is a closet artist. And even on my best day of cable dressing, I was only half as good as that guy. I mean, because just that was never my one of my strong I did I don't have the patience for it. So, you know, I I of course I did by hand because we didn't have pucks, then all of a sudden pucks showed up. You know, first the ones showed up, I think, was the Pandua Puck, and then you know, then the files came out for the 3D printing stuff, and then I think Jannard's got one now and a bunch of others. So did you do you think the puck systems improve cable dressing over hand dressing?

Why Pucks Help New Techs

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Oh, definitely. Yeah, I mean it's it's it makes it more repeatable, right? If you're using the same tool every time, it's it's easier to get that same result. And then the more you work with the tool, the better you get with it. So um, yeah, I definitely think it's it's changed. It it um it it really lowers the level the barrier of entry too. We have a guy like Sean that's been doing it for forever. Um, I've actually literally taken one of my honeycombs and given it to one of my guys and said, hey man, give them some rules, you know, like hey, this isn't to untangle cable with. Um, this is just to dress it, give him like a five-minute primer. Uh, this is how it works. This is you know, how far apart you put your velcro, this is what I'm looking for. I've had literally had green guys that have like had a month or two of experience. You put a cable comb in their hand, and they're dressing cables like old pros. And so I think that's where we're kind of bridging the gap, especially with the younger guys that are coming in the market right now. Um it's a different, it's a different world, Chuck. Uh, it's not like it was when you and I started, where it was like it was pretty rough, you know. Go get your cable stretcher, go get the bucket.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

The bucket of dial tone?

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah, yeah, your bucket of dial tone. I think you have one. Yeah, yeah. I've seen that before. And so, you know, and it's not because you can say what you want about about Gen Z and all that, but they have they can go anywhere, right? Like we need we need technicians. Um back in the day, it was like you could interview 10 guys and hire one and be fine. But so these guys come into the trade, they need to be brought up to speed as quickly as possible and not have all this downtime slipping around behind some guy that thinks he knows everything trying to learn some stuff. Uh so if we can put the right tools in their hands, because I don't I don't if if I have the choice of a new guy spending a whole bunch of hours learning on one of my jobs, or I just give him a tool that makes it look better and he can go learn something else, then that I'm gonna do that every day.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

So let me ask you this.

Honeycomb Numbering And Panel Landings

SPEAKER_00 31:35

So, you know, let's talk about the advantages between the puck and the and the and the and the honeycomb, right? So I'm I'm looking at the puck. Again, I've I've done 99% of my stuff with hand dressing. So when I look at this, I mean I mean I kind of would work my bundles out. But one thing that I noticed with the with the honeycomb is you have numbers on it. Actually, you have two sets of numbers. You have the numbers on the front, and then you got the numbers on the back. What advantage do those numbers give over using a traditional puck?

SPEAKER_03 32:04

So with the traditional puck, um Panduit, for instance, right? Like I use that thing, I probably burned up a couple of those guys where they just don't strap together anymore, uh, just wearing them out. Um uh and they do a great job, right? You get your cables in there, you dress your bundle, it looks good. The the problem is once you get to the back of that panel, um, if you just shove those cables into that cone without any rhyme or reason, you have this really nice dress bundle going in, and then right when you get to the back of the panel, oh well 48 is over here. I need it to be over there. So now you got this great bundle, and then everything just goes um with with the sound effects. Um, the other only other thing about the Panduit is uh it's it's it comes in a few different pieces, right? You got the different inserts, got the strap and all that. Um so the primary idea behind the honeycomb was to make it where if you line your numbers up and you ID your cables before you dress your bundle, um, those things will line will land right in the spot in the back of the panel where it where it needs to be. So it takes that that uh guesswork out of it. Um, you know, cable one goes into one slot. Um so you have the two. I did a pretty detailed video the other day. It's it's out there, it's on our YouTube channel, our Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, that basically describes the numbers, but from a 30,000-foot view, you have you have two sets of numbers on each cell, and it's designed to if you're dressing split panels, right? You got 24 coming in from the right, 24 coming in from the left. So that uh number on the right, that top right cell says 13-1. Um, so if you're doing your right bundle, your first cable's cable number one. If you're doing the left bundle, your first cable's uh gonna be 13. So if you're working on the right side, use the numbers on the right. If you're working on the left, use the numbers on the left. Um we do have a new version out. I need to get to you, Chuck. Um, try to get to you before you do your test there. But uh we did have some feedback, folks asking, you know, like, hey, I don't always dress from both sides of the panel. Uh so the new version has numbers on the back. It basically 1 through 24 on the right side of the cells and the 25 to 48 on the left side. Um, you know, just taking feedback from folks in the field. Oh, and we also put a uh a ladder rack clip on there. So there's a slot in either end of the honeycomb. You slide that uh clip on, and you can pop it on your ladder rack and it'll hold it still for you while you're loading it up. Um then the second feature were the individual cells. Um that was a big thing to me. So yeah, if you make a mistake, you're loading that thing. You don't have to go and dig, like on the pandu it, right? Everything kind of comes in and you work your way out from the middle. Uh so if you made a mistake, now you're pulling multiple cables out to get to that one cable if it's if it's on the inside. Uh so the idea was, and it does make it bigger. Uh people complained about that a little bit at the beginning. Haven't had many complaints now. So it makes a little bit bigger, but if you make a mistake or you need to move a cable around, you pop it out, those cells flex. Um, it's made out of a really tough, resilient uh plastic. So you should be able to pull that cable out and uh move it to a different spot. Third thing was just making it one piece of tool. Um now I know we did add the clip, um, but I didn't want you to have to pick pick a puck or pick and then strap it and Velcro it, and hopefully it holds together for you, or or uh take a piece and put it in another piece and twist lock it. And I just I just wasn't a huge fan of it. So I just wanted to be a one tool that's tough as hell. Um and it just makes everybody's job easier. Um we've even I mean, you know, I won't be S Chuck. Uh we've sold over 300 of them. Um I've had three that broke, made some some design adjustments, um, and

Materials Durability And Heat Resistance

SPEAKER_03 36:20

we had uh sorry, we made some design adjustments, also had some uh batch of bad filament that uh may have been the thing, but that doesn't matter. Uh what matters is we will you you send me a picture of your broken honeycomb. I'm gonna send you a brand new one next day. Uh because we're we want everybody's feedback. We want this thing to be something that you can use until you retire. Um we just want it to be easier in it, like I said, to lower that that barrier of entry for the new guys that come in.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

So if you're making it to make it to last until you retire, so I guess mine is gonna last a lot shorter period of time than somebody brand new coming in to be just playing.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Well, you can fasten down to someone, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And you know, you when you're talking about the you know it breaking and stuff, you you they're being we're not talking about like a jack that you handle it once and you stick it in. You're using this thing for hours and hours on top of you know the day, multiple projects. It's getting used a lot. And I think the three out of 300, that's only like what that's 1%, I think. Yeah, so that's that's not bad at all, actually. What kind of things I do know, I I know very little about 3D printing, and I think you and I talked about this on the pre-show call. Uh, one of my best friends printed me a 3D one, and I left it sitting on my on my dash in my truck, and uh the next day I came out, and let's just say it was a little warped, right? So he printed it off in some other thing. What kind of plastic are you printing these off on?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

So these are uh it's a variant of ABS, which is ASA, is the the actual uh chemical compound. I'm not gonna try to pronounce it on air, but so it's uh high heat resistant, um, it's it's flexible. Um and those are the two main qualities that we're looking for. Uh the one thing that did ended up happening then is once we, you know, because like anybody that gets a 3D printer, right? It comes with um, you know, maybe some test spools, and it's usually like PET G or I don't even know what they were now, but uh they're not meant, they're just meant to make doodads. Um, and so uh like I said, so once we started doing ASA, that we had to change the printer, we had to go to an enclosed printer. Uh when you when you burn uh ABS and ASA or heat it up, uh you have VOCs that are present. So um we had to go to an enclosed printer uh and ventilate uh our 3D printer farm. Um so it was it was quite the change to go from um uh just a regular open bed printer and then like, oh crap, I gotta, you know, do something better. But that's that's all part of the process, right? Like I could have kept it with a cheaper plastic and sold them, or not cheaper, but uh uh a less heat resistant plastic and sold them, but that's that's not what I'm about. I don't do that with my customers uh for GCATs, and I'm not gonna do it to anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

The funny thing is cause a technician in the field to have any undue burdens or have to go through extra steps because you decided to use a lesser quality, I think it's called filament or something like that, right? Here, I got a question for you. And I know you're gonna, I know you're gonna this is gonna be an unbiased thought. You just got awarded a data center with 20,000 Cat 6A cables. Which tool are you using?

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Oh, the honeycomb cable dresser, for sure. Yeah, like for the things I mentioned before, right? Uh the numbering, um, it it's it's gonna be universal. Uh so any of my guys can use it. Um, I don't have to give it to a 10-year guy. I can give it to a guy that just started, give him about a five-minute speech, and he's he's gonna get it. And that's very uh, especially now, that that's a thing to consider. And then um, like I said, just the just it being one tool, one piece, um is is good because if my guys lose the strap or the velcro or whatever, now I'm just buying a whole new tool. Um, and then you know, like I said, the forgiveness of having uh the individual cells, right? Um it's easier to take one cable out than six cables. So it should speed up the job in many different ways, and that's what we're all up against. Not only these data centers want everything jam-packed and high density, they want these things built now. Like they we get some there are times where we get paid extra to build these things faster. It's ridiculous. I mean, it's it's a good problem to have, but uh it can all it can stretch you out.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah, I saw a I watched a um I watched a documentary on data centers. I want to say it was last week, maybe the week before. And uh they in a documentary they said that they're currently constructing 3,500 new data centers in the US. Not existing data centers, but building 3,500.

Future Challenges More Fiber Less Copper

SPEAKER_00 41:24

That's a ton. That's a that's a ton. Let me ask you this question. I'm gonna ask you to put on your your uh your uh your magic thinking cap. Where do you see cable management challenges going in the future?

SPEAKER_03 41:41

I think it's at some point it's not gonna be copper anymore. Um I think it's gonna be that's a really good question. I think uh I think we're gonna see a lot more fiber. Um and that's kind of blows my mind thinking about it with the accounts that we're seeing these days. Um I think we're gonna be seeing a lot more fiber. Um, and so depending on the fiber and the jacket, dressing that is um its own unique challenge. Um so I think that that's probably what we're looking at. The jacket for that, for what that fiber is gonna look like if it's armored or if it's plenum or you know, whatever. How do we dress that in? Because they're not gonna say, hey, we're using fiber for everything now, just make it look however you want.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Do you ever foresee a day where there's no copper in a data center?

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, I think it's coming, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Keith, I appreciate you coming on the show today and talking about your your new products. I always love showcasing low

Wrap Up And New Tools Teaser

SPEAKER_00 42:46

voltage people from the industry coming up with tools to make the work easier for the people out in the field today. I appreciate you coming on the show today with me.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Thanks, Chuck. And just um, we have some other things coming out too. Uh, we've already launched the separator, which um basically you screw that to the wall and you pull your cables through it so that when your cables are when you're done pulling your cables, they're already separated. I've seen guys spend weeks doing that. So uh feel free to check that out. We can probably maybe talk about that on another pod there, Chuck.