Women Building The Future Of ICT

We explore how women build careers across ICT—from field installation and union apprenticeship to BIM-driven design and executive leadership—and why mentorship and culture make or break growth. The conversation closes with practical steps for newcomers and companies to open doors.

• why Women in Construction Week matters to ICT
• three career paths across field, design, and leadership
• first-day lessons and confidence under pressure
• BIM and Revit as force multipliers for delivery
• breaking stereotypes with results and skill
• how leadership sets culture and retention
• building intentional mentorship and clear ladders
• data center demand and the talent shortfall
• actionable advice for 19-year-old newcomers

If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being created
If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind leaving us a five-star reading
Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, you know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, anywhere I can figure out how to send that live stream to, where you can ask your favorite RCDD
Would you mind clicking on the cable code right there? You can schedule 15-minute one-on-one call with me after hours, of course. You can even buy Let's Talk Cabling merchandise

Transcript

Welcome & Community Housekeeping

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey Wire Monkeys, welcome to another episode of Let's Talk Cabling. This is a great episode that you're not gonna want to miss.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Stay connected. Do it right.

Live Streams, Ratings, And Support

Why Women In Construction Week Matters

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Welcome to the show where we tackle tough questions submitted by apprentices, installers, technicians, project managers, estimators, designers, even customers. We're connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being created? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind leaving us a five-star reading? Those simple little steps help us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage, and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry. Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, what are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, anywhere I can figure out how to send that live stream to, where you can ask your favorite RCDD. You know that's me. You know I'm your favorite RCDD. Questions on installation, design, uh, construction. I even do career path questions. But I can hear you now. But Chuck, I'm driving my truck at Wednesday nights at 69. I know when I get introduction. Breathing? And it'd be fine. It's funny I got a new watch, it's got breathing exercises on, so I've been doing breathing exercises now to help calm me down. Yes. And then uh finally, while this show is free, it will always be free. Would you mind clicking on the cable code right there? You can uh schedule 15-minute one-on-one one-on-one call with me after hours, of course. You can even buy Let's Talk Cabling merchandise. So this week's episode is going to be a special one. This week, across the world, organizations are recognizing women in construction. The initiative is led by the National Association of Women in Construction, also known as NAWIC. I guess maybe if we do like how we like we do with Bixie, right? Naywick has been around since 1953, and their mission is pretty simple and it's pretty powerful to support and educate advancement for women working across every part of the construction industry. From the job site to the design table, executive leadership, all that. Now, if you look around the industry today, the reality is the structure cabling, the fiber, the ICT infrastructure, we still have plenty of room to grow when it comes to attracting and developing talent. That includes encouraging more women to see this industry as a real career path. And that's exactly what today's conversation is going to be about. Today I'm joining with some professionals who who are not only are ICT professionals, I consider these three people friends. So it's it's not not what you know, it's who you know, right? So I consider them friends in the ICT world. First one, Shelley Olmsted. She brings perspective from the senior leadership. She helps guide along one of the largest ICT construction organizations in the country. We also have Heather Randolph. She works on the consulting and engineering side, where they actually take the customers' designs, make sense of them, and puts them into blueprints that you, the technician in the field, gets to install. And then let's not forget Teresa Johnson, a second time appearance here on the podcast. She represents the field and the training side of our industry with years of hands-on experience and a commitment to developing the next generation of ICT professionals as a certified instructor. We were talking about this right before we started Hitch recording about all the certifications she has. She has a lot of them, way more than me. So between the three of these, you're going to hear a perspective about the job site, the designing table, and even how the executive level of companies really look at the life cycle of our industry. So we're going to talk to each of them and find out how they found their way into this industry, what does the reality of work look like for them, and what does the future of this industry and what could it look like for the next generation behind them? Now, before we get good too long, let's go and do introductions. Heather, why don't you go and introduce yourself? And then uh Teresa, you can introduce yourself as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

All right. So um, yeah, so as Chuck kind of mentioned, um I work in the ICT industry as a design consultant working for a multidisciplinary MEP firm. Um and then so, and I graduated from Kansas State University in the Little Apple, also known as Manhattan, Kansas, the middle of nowhere. Um, but with that, I uh got my degree in architectural engineering, um, where we focus mostly on, you know, the MEP side of systems inside of your buildings. Um, we also have structural uh and then also uh construction management side in our department. So that's where I got really um exposed to understanding the construction side of the building. So with all three of those, um I went through a really rigorous program and to really understand the the ins and outs of all the different types of buildings and structures that we have out there in the world. Um and then from there I then packed up my little car and drove all the way across the country and decided I'm gonna move here to Orlando, Florida, where that is when then I began my career as an ICT consultant, um, working on large entertainment and hospitality projects that I just really thoroughly enjoy and being able to work with a lot of cool clients and projects and coming up with really awesome great solutions out there.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

You certainly move to the right part of the country if you're gonna pursue um hospitality and entertainment. You're in the right area of the country for that. We have lots and lots of theme parks in our area. Teresa, go ahead and give us the 50,000-foot view of you.

Meet Heather, Teresa, And Shelly

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Uh Teresa Johnson, I have been in the ITC industry since before Cat 5. I was doing fiber in the early 90s. And so I uh came up in the field. I joined the IBEW at a perfect time where they were expanding into the low voltage world. Um I came up through a service truck and then in-house and then uh GF on a hospital. I went in the office and uh started project managing, but all this time I'm also teaching at the trade school, structured cabling, uh security AV fire alarm, um, all the limited energy things. Uh and then in in 2018, my world changed, similar to Heather. I packed up my little car from Ohio and moved to Oregon. And uh it was fantastic. I love the West Coast and have had a lot of opportunities since then. Uh during the pandemic, I moved to Utah near my brother and uh became uh instructor at the trade school there. And I also teach at the college where I'm teaching Bixie, uh OSHA, and uh developing their structured cabling program.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Don't forget the FOA, you're teaching them too.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Yes, the FOA as well. So all the all the uh fiber I'm I'm really researching the high density fibers for data centers right now. It's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Yeah, I don't want to, this is a vendor agnostic show. I want to make sure everybody gets included. Everybody. I appreciate it. No, I know. So welcome to the show, Shelly. Why don't you give us the 50,000-foot view of of Shelly and and how you got in this industry?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Well, hi, Chuck. Thanks for having me on. Um, I'm Shelly Olmsted. I am the director of public relations here at IES Communications. Um and this is a new role for me. I I just stepped into this a couple of months ago. Before that, for 13 years, I was over all of the employee development training initiatives at IES. And for part of that, I was also over the quality. So I was the director of quality and development, um, and then the director of employee uh development. So I've got to kind of play in a few different areas uh with standards and the field, and what are we you know providing to customers on a technical level? And then also how are we taking care of our people, making sure they have career paths and helping them professionally grow into the next role.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Heather, what was uh what was your first exposure to the construction industry or the or the ICD industry?

Heather’s Path: AE To ICT Design

SPEAKER_00 8:41

So um I was exposed in two different ways. Um, first was like I said, um I came from an architectural engineering background where it was mixed with your MEP, uh structural and construction students all in uh together. Um and so with that, my first internship, well, I guess second internship, um was actually with a general contractor and working boots on the ground uh for a summer, helping uh actually build there in Manhattan, Kansas, uh the one of the new dormitories there. And so with that summer, I got your first hands-on experience of what a job site is waking up at 5 a.m., drinking 10 cups of coffee in the uh trailer, um, sitting down there, you know, in the beginning of the meetings, what everyone's working on, the project schedules, looking at the timelines, the boards, and then actually, like before I even started working on plans, I'm sitting there flipping through the plans um in the trailer, looking at all the sketches, RFIs on the boards, the plans, you know, trying to put things together. Um, I even, you know, went through the OSHA training. I got exposure to pouring concrete myself and even driving the forklifts around. Nice. That was really scary.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Uh but then you were confident, yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Oh, yeah. Well, that I think that was the thing is like I immediately like the first day, I was like, I was confident that I could do this, um, showing up as like the you know, only woman on the job site besides the admin um who was documenting all the RFIs and communication. But um at that point I had no idea that I was actually going into the ICT industry or technology either yet, um, because I was still going uh trying to decide if I want to do construction project management or if I wanted to really pursue MEP systems. And so that was that like kind of like my first exposure. Um, but then my second exposure to like the ICT industry was a little bit of both of where I worked in a hotel um in Manhattan, Kansas as a part-time. But with part of that, um it was the largest conference center in Kansas. And so with that, we'd held a lot of events and setups and you know, different BEOs and and you know, taking down different systems throughout the different parts of it and understanding, and they all came to me somehow where I realized that I was the person that was always back there in the IT room, configurating all the DSPs and amplifiers to split up the systems for the different uh inputs and you know, PowerPoint presentations and hooking up, you know, setting up the mobile IT racks and microphones and programming everything. And somehow I ended up instead of getting up at 5 a.m. to work on a construction site, I'm waking up at 5 a.m. to go to a hotel to ensure that before their event at 7 a.m. uh is opening bright and early, um, that I'm set making sure that all their A V is all configured right, works all right, it has all their laptops correct. And I realized soon that that was a very integrated part of the building. And so with my degree program, and I started pursuing, wanting to pursue uh and became very passionate about smart building design and systems, and that's when I decided to then take my next internship and learn about technology and low voltage systems. Um, and then I fell in love ever since.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

You know, I I want to cue in on one thing that you said, because you you talked about how you did construction, you did concrete and a bunch of other stuff. A lot of people don't realize this. Your experiences before coming into oh, by the way, Teresa, I caught your I caught your 2026 code reference there, limited energy. I caught that, just so you know that. I caught it. Um so your your experiences before you come into low voltage and even during, for example, um for many, many years I was a volunteer firefighter when I used to live in Maryland, right? So I went through the firefighter school, I went through EMT school, went through all that stuff. While I was working in low voltage, I'm sorry. Limited energy.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Limited energy, yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

While I was working at limited energy. And uh, but you know, and I never really thought that those two worlds would collide. It was they were two separate things, right? Well, because I went through all that training, I got promoted to being the safety officer for the for the company. Or not the company, that office of the company. So your experiences sometimes outside, not totally even related to this industry, can help you through this industry. You know, a lot of people don't realize that. Teresa, what was your first exposure to the uh to the construction industry?

Teresa’s Path: Field, Union, Teaching

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Uh, my dad was a builder. I was on a job site since I was two years old. Um my my earliest memory was I had a stick with a magnet on the end of it and I was dragging it through the dirt, getting the nails out of the dirt because my dad was roofing. So that was babysitting back in the day, but my it's end uh industry. I uh was very, very fortunate somehow to be uh uh introduced very early. I was in Washington state. Boeing was uh developing their 777, and I was working at an application-dependent uh man cable manufacturing company, literally making patch cords. Um but I also got C Core and AMP certified with fiber in like 91 or 92. And so what really did it for me was when I asked my boss, how do the wires know that they're twisted or untwisted? I I didn't understand electrical characteristics, and that's kind of what drove me into the electrical side of it, but always being limited energy.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

You know, I can always and you you can probably relate to this, Teresa. I can always tell how good somebody's gonna be in a class by the quality of the questions they're asking. Every single time. When we were sitting at when we were at the Bixie, then the one where they had the high school students coming, right? So me and Caitlin were sitting there at the emerging professionals table and they were coming up talking to us. There is this one student was asking all the right questions. And then when he got up and left, Caitlin and I both looked at goes, Oh, yeah, he's gonna be a future tech. He's gonna he's coming to this industry. You can you can just tell by the quality of the question. And I know exactly what student you're talking about. Oh, exactly. I mean, he's just he was he was asking all of the right questions. Tell tell me tell us about your first day on the job when you first came in. You know, because you you probably came in with some preconceived notions coming in as the training director. Oh my gosh, I'm the training director, but I don't have never done anything in the field. What do you remember about that first day?

Shelly’s Path: Training To PR Leadership

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Well, I'll back up just for a second because I always jokingly say, but it is actually the truth that I married into this industry 34 years ago. Um my husband was actually a tech one when we got married. Um, and just he progressed through the industry, ended up working in different estimating management roles, went into distribution, did sales. You know, he he was a regional division guy for a long time. So um so I I kind of learned because a lot of those types of, especially the sales roles, they'd have dinners or events with customers and the wives were invited. So I kind of got exposure that way. Um, and then watching, you know, and he would come home and tell me what was going on at work or whatever. Uh so I kind of knew, again, I always drinkly say enough to be dangerous about the industry uh when I came in. Um, but through those connections, I that's how I ended up at IES um because I came from that staffing, recruiting, and training world. Um, and I just brought an outside perspective to a construction type of position or industry. So uh my first day, it was like drinking from a fire hose and learning uh what what it was about, um, what processes were being done, what works, what doesn't. Uh so it was it was a lot of information all at once. What was nice is everyone was very welcoming and willing to show and teach. And uh even though I ended up, you know, over having the trainers reporting to me, they were teaching me stuff on a daily basis of like, well, this is what that means, and this is how we look at this situation. So uh yeah, but it was intimidating. It was definitely an intimidating first few months, I will say, not just the first day.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

So Heather, what was do you remember what your first day on the job site for for doing you know you know ICT stuff? Not not pouring concrete, but but you're for doing ICT. What was your first day like? Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Wow, I'm really we were behind the scenes um on a major uh roller coaster ride. Like I'm really like socketism and being around some pretty intense uh um, you know, clients and exposed and was like, you know, because we were looking at the existing site conditions for a new build um uh roller coaster. And I was just like, you know, again, like kind of pivoting back and thinking in my head about my internship and just knowing and again documenting all the different things and understanding how and where all of that underground infrastructure and fiber connections are and where we can, you know, uh connect back to what where are the empty, you know, conduits? Are they serviceable? You you know, kind of things like just again, that exposure I think to the field um in the construction, just looking at everything is just so extremely important. And um it was it was eye-opening and it was really great exposure just to help really advance and understand, you know, sit in the room with a bunch of uh leadership and important people to just really learn a lot and listen. I think the big uh advice I would say with that was also to just listen.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah, they're definitely two different worlds, right? I mean, when you talk when you look at the the people who are only have field experience and the people who have I'm gonna I'm just gonna call office experience. That could be project management, design, consulting engineering, whatever. So I'm just gonna classify it as field and office. You know, those are two different worlds. And that's not to say that somebody can't go back and forth between the two, but they're definitely, you know, the concerns to somebody in the field is not necessarily the concerns of somebody in the office, and and vice versa. You know, it's just that's why, yeah, because you got a little taste there of both. Teresa, what was your first day on the job site like?

SPEAKER_03 19:01

My first day on the job site, I already knew how to terminate everything. And so they sent me to uh go work with these people, and they're like, What are you here to do? And I said, What you're doing, and they were like, Really? They were punching down 66. And so I like whipped it out faster than they had it done because I'd been doing it for the last couple of years in a lab setting. And they were like, Oh, but the thing I remember the most was cutting in my first caddy or my first uh wall location, cutting that hole in the wall and knowing that it was permanent. Um it it was uh it was intimidating. We were in a high-rise building in an executive's office, and I was cutting a hole in his wall. And uh first time was hard. Of course, I hit the stud, you know, just like everybody else did, and they didn't explain to me things like that.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

But that was always cut horizontally first. Understood. Yes. And then also make sure you put a trash can underneath where you're cutting out so that way all the dust falls in the trash can.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

No, I I invented my own little thing. I would just get any piece of paper and make a cone out of it and tape it to the wall right underneath it. Nice. And then everything would just fall into the cone. Just V shape, yeah.

First Job Lessons And Field Realities

SPEAKER_04 20:24

You know, the question I asked uh Teresa and Heather was, you know, what assumptions they have about the industry before they entered it, but you kind of already had a a glimpse of it from you know from your husband and stuff. So you probably had some preconceived notions. Did they change after you came to work with IES?

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Oh, for sure, because some of my preconceived notions were, and and I think uh, you know, probably other women would probably say this too, is that, oh, it's gonna be hard because these guys are like, well, this is a guy's industry and a man's industry, and it's you gotta be rough and tumble and be able to, you know, do all these different areas and understand how you know how construction works and tools and all that stuff. Um, so I was I was trying to, in my mind, like before I started kind of learning some of that and like, okay, well, what does this mean? And you know, all these types of things. And when I got here, um there was definitely some of that, but more or less at that point, I guess we were growing and they were really open to we would just want to take care of our people and we want the right person in the role to help guide us on how to take care of people. So um a little a lot of my fears about that type of stuff were went away pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Uh Heather, what assumptions did you have about this industry before you got into it?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Assumptions. I assumed that everybody knew what I C T was, and I feel like I knew I just kind of assumed that people had common sense.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Well, you probably got the prize on both of those, didn't you? Teresa, what did what assumptions you have when uh when you got into this industry?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I I was kind of thrown Into it. So I really had zero knowledge of structured cabling when I started the application-dependent cabling that I was doing at the time. I really had uh a good idea of the construction industry because I'd lived in it my whole life. I knew the different personalities and and how you have to work through those and and honestly um proving myself to everybody all the time.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

Yep. And Heather, your boss was just on the show just a few weeks ago, and he made the same comment. And I told him, and I'm gonna tell you the same thing too, Teresa. Everybody starts this that just starts in this industry with zero knowledge. Everybody does. We all start the exact same spot. Exact same spot. Now it's it's funny because you know, it's people usually it's either a family thing, like it was with you, Teresa, or you kind of fall into this industry. I don't know of anybody coming up through high school, except for maybe the ones that went through the Bixie thing at the conference, who come out and say, you know what, that's a field that I want to go into. It's just we're we're just we're just unknown most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I mean to kind of caveat that though, I as a freshman in high school knew what I wanted to be and go to college for, and that was architectural engineering. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Okay, but architectural engineering, yes. But did you think you'd be doing limited energy stuff?

SPEAKER_00 23:30

No. That part exactly. What? I was still a part of the building industry and knew that I wanted to be, you know, help construct buildings.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

So so you knew what you knew what genre, the the you went the construction industry, but you didn't you weren't fine-tuned to the to the again, another Teresa one for you, limited energy. Gotta use those 2026 terms, right? Uh one of these days I'll say it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

But I'll I'll tell you a little story about that, uh, how how I learned it, which is very interesting. But uh go ahead. Or do you want to hear it now? No, let's go hear it now. Okay, well, I'm at the national training event in um Michigan teaching structured cabling to other teachers across the nation. Fortunately, I get exposed to a lot of wonderful people. Um, Palmer Hickman happens to be the person that appoints people to um the a panel on the NEC. I I was able to go on a group trip uh on a on a boat, and I was sitting next to Palmer and I told him I wanted to be on an NEC panel. And he said, um he knew he knows I'm low voltage, limited energy. So he goes, what kind of panel would you like to be on? And I said, anything with low voltage. And he said, there is not a definition for low voltage in the NEC. He said he said you want to be on a limited energy panel. And I said, Yes, sir, I do. And I was nominated to be on a panel. So um That's very cool.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

And you're right, there's actually no defin you'll hear people you want to start an argument on the internet, get on there and say, oh, Lou voltage is anything below 600 volts. You'll start. Oh, it's 100. Um Right. Every single time you'll start an argument. Every single time. Shelly, what surprised you the most when you got hired on by IES and you were actually dealing with people who came from the field?

Assumptions Shattered And Early Challenges

SPEAKER_02 25:36

What surprised me the most probably is when I went out to the field uh and I was being shown like work that was being done, or because I'd walk with the customer or things like that. Um, the field folks, I was like nervous because I thought they'd be like, oh, well, she doesn't know what really, really what we do, and she doesn't understand where we're coming from. So I was nervous about how I might answer like a question if they were gonna ask me a tough question or something like that. And it wasn't that way at all. Um, most everyone was so welcoming and actually be like, you know, Michelle, let me show you this, or you know, look at what we did over here and and talking me through. And it was really great because it'd be like, oh, well, how did you do that? And then they got really proud to show their work and explain that, and then also, of course, then take the opportunity to explain to me why they should get promoted and what their career path uh should be, uh, which always opened the doors to good conversations. So um it was a pleasant surprise. I I would like I said, and I think I think I got too much in my head about, you know, and I think sometimes, and this might be, you know, something we discuss in a minute about just people that might be coming in, ladies that might be coming into the industry, um, of don't let any of that make you too scared. Like I don't know, and then they might not want to work with me because I don't know what I'm talking about, or I'm new and I and I don't understand. Most everybody is so welcoming and wants to show you and wants to wants to be a part of, you know, showing the good things about what the work can look like and what we can do for customers.

SPEAKER_04 27:08

So, Heather, what what surprised you the most when you actually first started working in the in the in the in the design side of ICT?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

What surprised me the most, I mean, I I'm gonna get really uh designer uh technical here, but is how many people don't know Revit or BIM and how they can't or don't either want to adapt to it, learn it, or understand how that can really uh um bring efficiency to project execution and collaboration and coordination to really again help um bring light to the field and how much that can really help um alleviate uh such a large CA effort or uh that help with you know contractors in the field and just like again, just realizing the different collaboration, the tools that we have readily available to really help us bring our visions to life. Um so I honestly think that was probably my biggest eye-opening thing when I first got into the industry is is that how many people are not utilizing the tools that we have in front of us to help us uh design and engineer better systems.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

And that's why I asked you three people to be on this show, right? Because the low voltage industry is more than just being on a construction side pulling cable. And that's why Teresa's here. She's here for that component. And you're here to talk about the design component. There's people who may who want to be they this kind of interests them, but they don't want to pull cable. But but they might be really good with a computer, might be good with with with Revit or one of those building automation software. That's why you're here. And then and then honestly, Shelly's here for people because hopefully your your goal is to you know climb that corporate ladder. So Shelly's here to kind of make sure that, you know, what do you got to do to climb the corporate ladder to get to the you know to the C-suite, to the C-suite, right? Teresa, what surprised you most about the uh about this field when you got into it?

Field vs Office: Different Worlds, Same Goal

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Um how uh technology was just emerging into the normal life. Nobody had phones or even pagers yet. But what I did realize was no it we were always the afterthought. Um it was like the building's done. Now we have to go in there and open tiles and cord drill and do all kinds of things that should have been done. I I was always going, why? But I have a familiarity with the construction industry, so I kind of know the flow. Um so it really surprised me that phones and computers were like, oh, and we need that. Um, but to Heather's point, BEM, uh I've been in the industry long enough that I was uh I've I've lived through the pencil sketch, I know drawings, I know specs, I know, you know, uh standards, all of that stuff. And not utilizing the tools that we have. The first time I used BEM was in 2014 on the Medical Mart in Cleveland. It was amazing to have that. Uh we had a rolling cart where we could do design in the foyer because we had um feed conduits or tray or whatever going through an open area where it wasn't supposed to be an open area. And we had to relocate things and we knew beforehand because we would put it on on the computer and it would show us, look, that's what it's gonna look like. And the second thing with the BIM uh I got to utilize about oh, five years ago, and we were building a hotel. Every day there was a person that would come in with a tripod into every single room and and take a uh 360 picture of it so that once the drywall was up, we didn't have to look for the box. We knew exactly where the box was. And so uh utilizing those tools, fantastic. Um, and and we absolutely need to do more of that. We have technology, we are technology.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Yep, yep. That's why that's again, that's why I love this industry, because it's you know, it's I you know it can go off in so many different directions. It truly does. And and so you guys told a pretty powerful story and and how your different roads actually led to how you got into industry. But once you once you get into the industry and you actually you get into the office and you start doing the design work, you get in the on the construction site and you have to wear the hard hat and got to sit in that GC's meeting, the reality of work and the culture can be very, very different. You we all know that, right? So let's talk about what does that experience look like, right? Let's start off with you, Heather, first. Have you ever felt underestimated in your in in a project environment?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Oh, absolutely. Um I was thankful I was very involved in a lot of um women in STEM, women in construction, you know, um exposed to a lot of that in college, um, as I've always been very passionate about that. Um so I've I was always having you know a lot of great uh tips and tools and tricks and ideas and mentorships um to really help navigate how to be, you know, a woman in this industry. And a lot of them just really told me about like having understanding your confidence and speaking out loud. Don't be quiet. Um and so with a lot of that, I've just really have, you know, that really prepared me well to to navigate through the industry. Um and having confidence, I think is the number one key. Um, and anytime anyone, you know, underestimates you, doesn't believe you, don't want to listen to you, um, shrugs you off, whatever, you know, that may look like, but it's just having that confidence. Um, and when you have that confidence and understand your systems and what value you bring to the table, um, your expertise and knowledge speaks for itself. It might not be right away, um, it might not be immediate, but eventually that talent, that knowledge, that expertise um will speak for itself. It will get acknowledged, it will get noticed. Um, and then over time, you know, consistency, consistency builds that credibility. Um, and so I would say like that, you know, really is what kind of helped me navigate through those times where I felt like I was underestimated.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

You know, we can get into the whole conversation of how each generation process social interactions. Right. Um and I because I don't want to talk bad about any one generation or the other, because there's differences between all of us. There truly is. Right. And the the reality of the fact is take take out the take out the whole generational social interaction thing. Everybody on the first day on the job site is it you may be underestimated. But it's a little bit it's a little bit different because you have that extra hurdle because you guys were females coming to the job site, and now you're dealing with that whole hot that whole male dominance, male mature whatever they want to call that. Tracer, well, how how have you ever when have you ever felt underestimated on a job site? And how did you handle that?

Underestimation, Confidence, And Credibility

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Well, being in the IBEW, uh just being in the IBEW, and if you don't know what that is, that's the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. It's the electrical union, it's the oldest um union we have. Um so if if you had any preconceptions about union membership, at at a time it had to be, you had to know somebody just to be able to get in. And there weren't any women, uh very, very few. I'm always the only female on the job site. So like Heather said, being a strong woman and having confidence in yourself, it's often if if I have confidence in myself and I have a strong opinion about something and I'm not going to fold, um often, I know this is harsh, but you know, I'm I'm a mouthy woman instead of a confident foreman. And so uh proofs in the pudding, right? We have to put up or shut up, and that's how we do it in the field. After a while, I would just go do my job and then come back and say my job's done, and they'd be like, your job's done. Um, and then they would call me again because they didn't have to babysit me or hold my hand. I was competent. Um, and yes, as time goes on, uh you get those people that that will never accept you. And then there are people who understand where you're coming from, you have the knowledge, um, and your gender really doesn't have have anything to do with that. So, but one other thing. They did uh call me the hatchet for a long time because I didn't put up with it. Um and and we had plenty of labor. So if you weren't uh doing your job the way you were supposed to, then then I I got to get rid of you.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

So let me ask you this have you ever felt underestimated uh in your roles with uh and senior level senior senior level management? Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Uh especially as I was newer. Um I I eventually, when I was made to be over the entire training department, there were very veteran bixie certified trainers that now I was going to manage and dictate like these are this is going to be what our standard is, this is what we're going to be looking for as we audit on drop walks, these are the things to put in place. And um I had one person in particular who'd been with the company for 20 plus years, had been with Don Fischstein, like when it started, when he started the organization, and he knew I didn't know all of the ins and outs. And so he would definitely be, he would push back and literally argue. We actually ended up in a very loud yelling argument one day, which that's the first time that would had ever happened in my career, um, just because he thought he knew best and he wasn't hearing what I was trying to say about a certain situation. Um, so once we were able to talk it through, and it was when we were writing our standards manual. We have a we have an IES standards manual of how this is the IES way to make a jack, to pull and cable, you know, whatever it is. Um, and he had very strong feelings about how information was presented. And in that time, I had to kind of say, okay, you're the technical expert. You're always gonna be the technical expert. But I'm the I'm the person that knows how to create, you know, to write technical writing, put communications together, put content together, imagery, videos. I that's those were my stronger points. And you have to understand that there's a way to present information that people will learn better from than if you're just like, well, it's this or it's this, and it's lecture the whole time, right? So that was an interesting uh dynamic. After that argument, though, he was so we were good. We became like buddies, you know. It's like I just had to kind of like prove myself, earn my stripes that I could stand up to him and and stand up for what was right and what we were trying to do with the mission of the department.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

He wasn't from New York, was he?

SPEAKER_02 38:58

He was. How'd I know that? Well, I and I will never forget my favorite part of that argument was when he was yelling, I'm like, who are you yelling at? He's like, I'm not yelling, this is how I talk. And it's like, well, let's make it right.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Right? And and funny thing is, if if you're yelling, you're not listening. And that's the only way you resolve you know conflict, is you have to listen to the other person. You have to listen to, you know, what they're saying. You can't you can't you can't come to a mutual agreement if you don't understand the other person's position. So let's talk about stereotypes for women in construction, right? The industry's gotten better. There's a lot more women in the industry at all different levels, field design, and also senior level management stuff. Question goes to you, Heather. What stereotypes do you think uh the the ICT needs to move past when it comes to women in the industry?

BIM, Revit, And Building Smarter

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Um so I think like the stereotype is again that the women are, you know, knowledgeable and credible. Um I think that it's always just been kind of, you know, a man's world, or they always think of technicians and installers. And again, going back to like, oh, that's you know, men do all of that. Um I, you know, every time you know think about when you do call your uh internet service provider or cable cable TV provider or whoever you're talking to that needs to come out and service, you know, your house or apartment, condo, whatever that is, so that way you have internet and TV, it's always a male, it's a man, right? You know? And so I think that that conception is that that's what the entire industry is. And the stereotypes I think that need to move past is that we all bring a lot of knowledge and concepts to the world and to the table, and that we can all support one another. You know, we all are, you know, unfortunately, different, you know, genders and we are made differently. That means our our mind and skill sets are just naturally going to be different as well. And so when I mean, I feel like when you build a strong team or design or project, it's not built based off of one concept or one skill set. The way you strengthen that and and succeed is bringing, you know, five different pieces of the pie together. And to do that, you need to bring different genders together.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

I'll even go past that. It's not even just it's more than just genders, it's also people from diverse backgrounds. Yes. Um on the field side, Teresa, what stereotypes do you think women are still fighting in the ISD industry?

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Much like Heather uh said, we all have different backgrounds, different abilities, different uh things that we bring to the table. Often in our industry, um it's uh maybe your physical ability of installation in the field. Or um your uh sometimes it has to do with how you look at the project differently than the people around you, which is typically the male. Um and very clear cut, but with uh with my vision, there they're shades of gray, right? So the support um of other people during this process, um, of getting to know each other, understanding that I bring different things to the field than than you do, and that we could all be successful together. That's the only way that we're going to be successful. Um and and Heather said supporting each other. Women, every time I see uh uh a woman in the field, which is rare because I'm always the one, um I I love it. I I I cling to them and and say, you know, let show me your your your magic and I'll show you mine.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

Yeah, my my personal observation here, and I have absolutely no numbers to back this up, other than I teach 20 I've taught 20,000 people in this industry for as far as my day job. And the vast majority of those are people from the field. Okay? That's that's the only um thing I'm basing this on. There's no no official research. But uh to me it seems like in the industry we're more accepting of women in the design roles, the project management roles, the office, the office positions than we are in the field. We do because in a given month's worth of classes, at best, I might have two or three female students at best. Let me ask you this what stereotypes about women do you think this in our industry needs just to move past?

Stereotypes Women Still Face

SPEAKER_02 43:39

I will uh so I will say this. I I think there is still a stereotype that these types of positions, uh the more technical uh manual labor parts of the you know, the positions are more suited for men. Um I think that there's been a lot of progress though in that area. Um it because it it What we're seeing is success comes down to skill. And it doesn't matter that, you know, if you're a man or a woman, it doesn't it doesn't matter. Gender doesn't matter. It's whether you can actually perform it uh competently and efficiently and be it and make it repeatable, right? That's that's what is going to make you valuable on the team, and that's what's gonna move any project forward. That's gonna move any organization forward if you can just have your top skilled people doing the work and getting it done and moving to the next school post and the next goal post. So um, you know, as more women enter the field, I think that that that has helped and it's showed that um it that part doesn't matter. I think also we're seeing more people in engineering or more women in engineering, more women in project management. Again, it's just it might be a different perspective, but it might not. They might have the same exact perspective as the guy that's been managing it for 10 years, um, and then and they're pleasantly surprised that they're on the same page. And so gender doesn't I think that's one thing that we can see that gender doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

And that kind of comes back to the we were just talking about communications. You know, if you if you can communicate with each other, then you'll understand the other person's position and you'll find that we're more alike than we are different.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yeah. And I feel like Yes, and I feel like the good news is that in in even like what we're doing right now, in Chuck, but the stuff that you're you're doing just on a weekly basis where you're highlighting real stories and real things that are happening, um, and a lot of them involve women in the industry, you we're just seeing that those shifts are happening a lot faster and some of the outdated perceptions are disappearing. I think that's important and I think you should keep doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

I I will un until either my my microphone quits working or my internet stops. I'm gonna keep on going away. What are some of the things that a company can do to create a workplace that's that's where more people, especially women, can thrive?

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Uh I think you know, things like Women in Construction Week are great uh that we just had. I I love that, and that and that what we saw in our on our side of the fence over here in our organization was um there were a lot of men helping organize those those events and taking a moment to even just say, hey, thank you, and recognizing that. Um but also again, just more of this, more highlighting the stories, showing women in these roles, and uh and bringing bringing a lot of awareness to that again, it's it's about skill.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

What can companies do to create a workplace that where women can thrive and be attracted to come work there?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

I was very fortunate that my first um boss, my first mentor had no problem with allowing me to go and do what I needed to do. He had confidence in me and trust in me. So with that, uh you have to have the right leadership to be able to allow people to do what they do. Um I was really fortunate that I had some um some knowledge, some previous knowledge. And so when I got into the IBEW, my first job had a thousand quads on it. So I it was the biggest job I had ever done. Um but confidence to say that that I could go and do that, you need leadership to buy in.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Heather, on the on the design side, and I'm I'm also gonna let you speak for like the project. Can I say one other thing?

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Um we have 3,000 members in local 354. There's 128 women.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Wow. Wow. Well, there's hard numbers for you, kind of bearing out what I see as an instructor.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

I got some more numbers for you too, Chuck, at the end of this.

SPEAKER_04 48:07

Okay, well, you're next. So so I'm gonna let you speak for the for the office side, whether it's the consulting engineer, the designer, the project manager, what can companies do to create workplaces where it's gonna attract more women where they can thrive?

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Um, I'm gonna definitely piggyback off her response um with leadership. I really am strongly uh believe that uh workplace work culture, no matter what industry um you are in, uh, that starts up at the top in management and at leadership. And I believe that if that is not set in stone, if they don't have that same um, you know, believe in the same thing, support the same things um of whatever, you know, those skill sets or culture you have in place, um it will not trickle down to the remaining of um employees, um, however the business is structured. Um and so it's one of the things is to really support women in the industry. Um, you know, then you need to see that through your leadership. Your leadership needs to start there to really promote it and um support it. And that, you know, that really comes down to having that visibility um and mentorship and allowing, you know, younger staff and women or just women in general to really be able to thrive and give them those opportunities to make them not feel, you know, underestimated. And then, you know, because eventually, you know, you want them to grow into long time, long-term leaders just like yourself. And so if you're not, you know, supporting that and engaging that and setting people up for success, um then you're not going to thrive in that environment. They are going to leave to go somewhere else where that environment is set up in such a way and they are going to thrive because that's what drives people is they they want to thrive, they want to advance their career, they want to learn. And if they're in an environment where that's not being supported, um, then they can't thrive. Um and so I definitely think it's really starts at the top with leadership and putting in place those types of attributes to help women, women thrive.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

You had some numbers you wanted to share as well?

Leadership’s Role In Culture Change

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Uh yeah. So she's talking to that. Um, as you know, Chuck, I recently gave um my first uh presentation um at the recent Bixie conference. And uh as I was standing up on stage and looking down, I mean we know that this is a very male-dominant industry and within Bixie, um, and why I sit on the Women in Bixie committee. But um as I was standing out there on the stage and looking out at the audience, and just I actually counted what at least I could visibly see of how many women were in the audience of about 85 uh people, and and I could only count three.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

Yep. You also you also I think I remember in your email response when I invited you to be a part of today's show, you seemed like you were already familiar with the women construction uh weekly celebration and the and the and the NAWIC, right? So you're so do you think that that that that organization is doing good? It's actually helping to break those barriers so more women can be attracted to the industries?

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Actually, yeah. So you know how I told you that previously, and one of my answers was that I was very involved in other women and org uh organizations back in college that really helped me prepare myself for this industry to know what I was getting into and going and diving um into a male-dominant industry. And that was because I was heavily involved in Naywick and um in college um in the local Kansas City chapter um and was attending their events um and at uh nationally as well. And I've attended, I was attended some of their national conferences as well while being in college. Because, like I said, um earlier on in my uh collegiate career, I was pretty strongly feeling I really wanted to pursue construction and construction management, um, mostly because I really felt like I was a really strong leader and really wanted to manage um and and see myself in that role um right away with being in construction. And so I was just really heavily involved in that. And then I also even won several scholarships and awards through the NAWIC program while being in college as well.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

Is there a cost to be a member of NAWIC?

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Uh I think it's yeah, I think there is a cost associated with it. I can't remember on the top of my head. Um, but it is it's a national organization just like Bixie is or um, you know, any of these other uh industry organizations or like SWE, um, which is a Society of Women Engineers. Um so, but it's definitely um uh a really good organization to be a part of. Um and you know, anyone, any woman out there, um, there's lots of local chapters. Um look up the local chapters that you may see, you know, on LinkedIn in groups, um, try to get involved and see what you know they're doing locally.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Excellent. So so we've talked about the journey, we've talked about how you got there, we've talked about some of the realities, you know, of of working in a male-dominated field, and and I love how you guys emphasized um it starts with the leadership, it's gotta be there first, it's gotta come down. Now I want to move the conversation forward and start talking about the future, right? Because the next generation of talent is watching everything that we do daily. So let's so Teresa, we'll start off with you. Where do you see the biggest opportunities for women in ICT over the next 10 years?

SPEAKER_03 53:24

In in the field as technicians. Um because right now with the data center work that is going on all over the country, um the estimate is we are 200,000 technicians short of doing the installations for uh these large data centers. So there is so much work in the field, and not everybody goes to college. Some people go to trade school, some people learn in the field. So I am a field person, even though I went into the office and I'm a teacher now. Um the field is is where uh women have a giant opportunity to go forward, but continuing on up through the management chain. Um so that uh we will have um an equal seat at the table.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

So I'll throw the question over to you too, Heather. Um, where do you see the biggest opportunities for women in this industry over the next decade?

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Uh with that, I would probably say again, is just um networking. Um, networking, uh education, learning, uh spreading the word are probably the biggest opportunities to be able to get people exposed to the industry is first, is our are is the biggest thing. It's like you know what you mentioned earlier, is that when we all come into this, male or women or female, is that we are we don't know nothing. We're brand new, you know, we're super green. And so with that is to, you know, having those opportunities leads to networking, communication, uh, you know, education, social media, you know, all of that I think is probably going to be the biggest, you know, opportunities to really engage and get to people out there to understand our industries and what opportunities that they are that that are out there.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

This next question is Wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:30

Can I? Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

I know I talk like crazy. I'm a teacher. Um sorry.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

I understand that 100%.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Um, also shows like yours, Chuck. Um this show is amazing. I was teaching a uh IN 101, which is the Bixie's first class, uh about two weeks ago. And um my kids had a break and they or my young men had a break. They were showing each other something on the phone, and I said, What you got going on there? And they turned it around, and it was me on your show. Um and I said, Wow, okay, so that exposure is getting out there. People like you, Chuck, that um that are showing the world, our industry, but not just our industry, all facets of our industry.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Yeah, yeah, one thing I learned, you know, I've I've been doing this podcast for five years. And what and so and I'm being honest, sometimes it feels like I'm just talking to a camera because you're not getting feedback, and you just it feels like you're just throwing stuff against the wall and nothing's nothing's sticking, right? But every once in a while you get a glimpse, just like you just mentioned, yeah, right there. And then I had a I had a post, somebody posted, tagged me in a post. They were they were splicing fiber in a fiber tray, and they had their iPad on the wall watching one of my shows with me and Henry Frank, and then they were doing that, and they posted on LinkedIn. You never know, this goes to everybody, you never know who's watching you or who's listening to you. That's why it's imperative that you always be on your game and you think about everybody in this industry. Everybody in this industry. So let me ask you, what changes in training or or mentorship um would help more women succeed in this industry?

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Uh I had the pleasure of interviewing two of our uh really strong technicians that we've got out on a site here in Chandler, Arizona, uh ladies that were willing to share their story. I talked with them last Friday, and one of them had been in the industry for 19 years. And she's like, it was it's completely different for her than it was then than it is now. Um, as she was sitting there with somebody that she was mentoring that's only been with us for two months, but already killing it. Um, and it's just growing and growing. So, I mean, obviously in the field, obviously uh management and leadership. We're seeing more women come into leadership roles, again, bringing uh just past experience and uh understanding how to grow and and and communicate with people. Um, and all of those matter, and all of that is is great to keep again moving any organization.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

What can companies do to create a workplace that where women can thrive and be attracted to come work there?

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Well, first of all, uh for women not to be afraid to ask for a mentor. I think that's one thing is uh, and I know I felt this for a long time what when I first came in, is that I needed to show that I could do it by myself. And nobody nobody grows in a vacuum. So uh that was something I had to I had to learn about myself and get over when I joined the the ICT industry. Um so first of all, women don't be you know, women, don't be afraid to ask for a mentor, ask for someone to help you. Um I'm hoping as you're new in the industry, you do get already partnered up with someone that's more experienced or you're shadowing and you're learning in that capacity. But if you're not, ask, ask for someone. And I think that you brought up a good point. Uh people outside of the industry can be great, great sounding boards, come with a fresh perspective. So I've um I've got a couple of I've had a couple of good mentors, I have a couple of good mentors now, and one of them isn't in this industry. Um, but if we're speaking specifically to women, I I would say don't be afraid to ask a man to be your mentor. Um I know a lot of times we're like, I'm gonna find a strong woman, and you should, like I said, have multiple mentors, and that's important too. I think you should have a woman who's done it or in a different, higher level position, maybe outside the industry that can still offer that perspective. But don't be afraid to ask a man to help you as well. Just be like, hey, you're really good at this, and I want to be really good at this. Would you be willing to mentor me or let me work with you or you know, whatever however it works for, you know, everybody's got a different whatever their work situation is or their site situation is. Um, and I think that sometimes we do what I was doing when I first started is like, well, I can do it. And I'm gonna show them and I'll do all this research on my own and I'll figure it out. I can figure it out. And you probably can, but it's gonna take way longer, and you might be missing out on some great connections and opportunities that these other folks could also bring into your life. So don't don't discount that at all.

Networks, NAWIC, And Women In BICSI

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

Yeah, I said it a million times on the show. Dad always used to say the best lesson learned is the one from somebody else's mistake.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Dad was right. My other thing is like, and you don't have to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. Nobody told you you had to. Nobody expects you to, even though you might expect that of yourself. Nobody else does. So be a little vulnerable and ask. And if they say no, that's okay. Find the next find someone else.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

Well, and that yeah, exactly right. You know, you you there are gonna be people out there who just they don't want to mentor for you know a number of reasons. You know, they don't feel they're qualified. And I talked about that with Theresa where I said, you know, you know, even even somebody who's only got two years experience can mentor somebody who's on day zero. You know, anybody can be a mentor in this industry. Um, and and there's so many benefits from mentorship. You know, you you f if you're the mentee, obviously you're you're in the learning cape, you're learning side of it, but if you're the mentor, it helps reinforce the subjects that you may not even thought about for a long period of time. Because you might you might not be doing installation anymore, you might not be doing estimating anymore. It helps reinforce you, it helps you grow as a mentor. It's a win-win-win scenario when you when you enter that mentorship relationship. It it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

It is. I I will also say this about the mentorship relationship is that your mentors are you're gonna have multiple ones over time. So you know, you might have a certain person as your mentor for a season because that's what you're learning and going through at that time, and that's what they're going through at that time. And that's fine. But you've made that connection, and that's somebody that you know even later on that you can trust and maybe go back and ask a question to later on, even if it's not that direct mentor-mentee type of relationship. There's also people that aren't good mentors, they they might be really good at what they do, but they're really bad at explaining it, and that's okay too. But that's still, again, someone that you could have as a friend, as an ally on site, and and move to the next person that you know might be a bet better at explaining things. Um, you know, that was always our joke in training, too. Not somebody might be really great at what they do, but they're just not a great teacher of it. And I think that's true for mentors as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Yeah, but you you don't you don't become a good mentor if you don't I was just I was telling my my my pastor still in the church this week because his pastor likes to tell the story about this when he was out on this little boat and then the storm came in and you know he'd never been on a boat before. And I told his son, I said, next time he tells you that story, just say, Hey Dad, calm waters don't make good captains. And he's like, I like that. And what I'm what I mean by that is, yeah, there's somebody might not might not be a good mentor today, but you don't become a good mentor if you don't stretch those legs, if you don't go through a couple of those cycles and figure out what does make a good mentor, and always have always have the growth mentality. You know, you know, when I when at my day job, I teach. You you know that. I teach and and and whenever I get you know surveys coming back, um, if it's it's not all fives, I always reach out to them, hey, what can I do to be 10% better for the next class? That's my goal. 10%. Because you'd be surprised how fast that snowballs. And you keep doing that, and you keep doing that, and you keep doing that, and all of a sudden, you know, people think you can you know stand in front of a group of people and talk without being nervous. No, I'm nervous every time. Every time I teach a class, my stomach's in knots. I'm just good at hiding it and then I know how to get past it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

So you know I get I get butterflies every time. And it's like I I just know that's part of the process, and you just take that first step and you breathe and you go. Yep. Um, and I I I love that you ask that question because to women who might get asked to be mentors, I will say this be vulnerable yourself to ask them for feedback. Say, hey, I'm I've been sharing my experience with you. I'm, you know, what what could I do better in explaining? Or what else would you actually need to hear right now that that would help you? Because sometimes we also get into this. I'm a mentor, and he will talk in these platitudes, and you talk in these very big picture um ideas and big picture, having vision and big picture, you need that definitely. But helping somebody who's at level one right now, they don't need level 20. They need to, you know, they need that first step and that that advice to just breathe and make it through the day sometimes. So um I think that's that that's a great, that's a great vulnerable, vulnerable thing you're doing by asking what what could I do better? You didn't give me a five, so what could I do better?

The Next Decade: Opportunity In ICT

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

Now, this question, this question is it's right in y'all in the in the sweet spot of all three of you guys. All sweet spot. Okay. Oh, we'll let uh Teresa start off first. What changes in training or mentorship, right? Does they see how it ties in perfectly there? What what changes in training or mentorship, or let's let's add on career development, would help women be more successful in this industry?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:29

Having the opportunity to be in this industry to begin with, to know that there is a place for us and know that we can um we can help the project go forward. Uh mentoring is is gigantic. That is one of the biggest things that helped me. And my mentor was was my boss, literally. And him having confidence in me, him letting me call him and you know doing things like that. So again, leadership is is is where we need to go with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:11

Yep. And you see why I threw this out there because most people know Teresa's instructor, but not many people know Heather. Heather has a huge role in mentorship in this industry. A huge role. That's why I said it was right in the sweet spot. Right in the sweet spot. So Heather, now it's your turn to wax poetic. What changes can we make in the mentorship side to make women be more successful?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

Yeah, so I think that the biggest thing is having intentional mentorship programs.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Um, and clear career pathways that are extremely valuable to the professionals in the industry and helping professionals understand the different certifications that are out there that they can achieve, you know, RCDDs or the technicians, tech ones and twos, or, you know, RTPMs, or even if you're in the security side or the AV side, you know, with your CTS or your PSP, but and having technical training options and leadership development can really help accelerate the growth and retention with the women in the industry. And, you know, I say this because going all the way back to what I've been saying is getting involved in networking with those women, strong women in uh in the industry programs um back in college is I had a mentor then. And this is what led me all the way to my strong, passionate, passionate uh mentorship program that I um helped lead in Bixie is they sent me down right as I was getting ready to graduate and we were having coffee and lunch. And you know, I asked her, like, what are some you know advice to take with me into going into you know, into the career? Um, and she said, find a mentor. Find a mentor. And I saw that there was a Bixie mentorship pilot program starting. I put in my application um because I was like, oh, well, this is exactly what she told me to do. You know, let me see how I can get involved and have a you know a mentor in the industry. And then, Lord and behold, I get one of the best mentors matched with me, Carol Ever, Oliver. Um, and that then just led to um a lot of great uh ideas and just a lot of mentorship to really help develop me in my career, um, to really help me then, you know, be the chair of the Bix C mentorship work group and program where we really help elevate different professionals and really even get other younger, greener people into the industry, um, and even seasoned professionals like yourself, Chuck, um, to help mentor others to really help them, you know, that growth and that success. And I think that the biggest thing, you know, and reason one of the reasons why I I sought that out is because my uh company or, you know, my employer right now at that time did not have an intentional mentorship program set in place. Um so where I wasn't even you know paired with anybody in my company or my firm or anything like that were you know helping me lead them the way. And so I think a big thing is really having those intentional mentorship programs, even if there's not one set up, help lead one, help start one, or just you know, take the initiative to say, hey, we have a new employee. I'm gonna take them under my wing and help mentor them and guide them and help them expose to the industry. Um, see see if this is the right fit for them. Maybe they don't want to design and sit behind a computer all day, and maybe they want to be a technician, or vice versa. Um, and or like I said, maybe they can uh I mean, I've seen it all the time where we pull people from the A V industry where they've been an A V integrator for the last five years, but now they want to make a change and come and learn about the limited energy uh and you know the IT world and realm and the racks and cabling and infrastructure, or even the security side. You know, maybe I've done security or design and want to learn more about AV, or you know, like I said, really strengthening that uh industry all uh as a whole.

Practical Advice For Newcomers

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

And talk about hitting the the the mentor lottery, Heather. Carol? Former Big C president, heavily involved in Big C extremely knowledgeable. That's the mentoring lottery winner right there. That's the two billion dollar lottery ticket for mentoring mentorship. If a 19-year-old woman is listening to this show right now and thinking about getting in this industry, what would you say, Orn?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:22

Depending upon which direction she wants to go in, um, she could uh go to school, college, and uh be Heather. Uh or she could go to a um apprenticeship program, uh such as the IBEWs, which we have a low voltage or limited energy uh program and and take a three-year apprenticeship program where they're working, earning um during that time. Uh I did want to mention that uh I teach at the trade school and I set up my own apprenticeship or excuse me, my own mentoring program. I'd get the older uh apprentices and and have them with the first years. I'd have them first day and say, hey, who wants to come in here? Wouldn't it have been great if you had somebody who is in fourth or fifth year uh to talk to? And and a lot of them, I I usually have a good handful of the the older apprentices.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:24

Heather, what's your what's your response? If you have a if a 19-year-old woman is listening to this podcast right now and you're thinking, man, this sounds like a cool industry to be in, what would you say to that 19-year-old?

Final Takeaways: Support And Inclusion

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

I would tell her um that to be curious, ask questions, and to uh be confident. Um if you feel like you're not confident, there's lots of self-growth, self-help books, podcasts, things, and whatever you can do to um gain that confidence. Um but I would definitely say that that would be, you know, the things that I would really, you know, key soft skills that I would say to really help you navigate the industry and grow in the industry. Um because it is a very exciting time. Um one of the things that I absolutely love about our industry is that it is always forever changing. Um, and that is one of the reasons why I chose the industry and um and wasn't an electrician or electrician or electrical engineer or mechanical engineer, um, was because like I am a futuristic person. That's one of my strengths that I have um in one of the strength builders tests that we take um is that I'm I have a very futuristic mindset um and ability. And I saw uh the industry changing, you know, 10 years ago of it being very smart, uh intelligent buildings and systems design, and that got me into the industry and to learn a lot about it. And so I think that, you know, this there's a lot of unknowns out there with our industry, but the way that the ICT industry as a whole, whether you're a technician or designer, installer or teacher, um whatever that is, because there are so many different ways to touch it, um, is it's really shaping how buildings and cities, you know, and organizations operate, how we operate in a in in our buildings. Um, uh one of the things I simply tell or try to educate other project managers or people that are trying to help understand if they need to hire an ICT designer, simple question is I always ask do they need Wi-Fi to operate their building? Answer that for me. Think about that. Um, and so because you know, that's something that wasn't a common question, um always asked. And so that just like, yeah, well, yeah, I can't operate that, or I I can't have business, or I can't drive business, you know, um, without it. And so just knowing how awesome the technology is forever advancing um and growing, that the opportunities will really be there. Um we have a really strong job security as well with this knowledge that we have. Um, and then if the other uh advice that I give people and and some of the advice that I've given to other people, being a mentor myself, um, that will really help, you know, if you're 19, uh is if you're looking into the ICT world, learn Revit, learn BIM, because there are so many people who don't know it, are terrible at it, are not competent at it. Um, and it is a major required skill for what we do every day. And if you are able to have that skill set, um that will definitely uh really strengthen your resume and really help you, you know, put you out there with your career growth. Um, but again, going back to the soft skills, be curious, ask questions, be confident.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:41

There was a meme I saw one time, and it wasn't too long ago. Everybody's probably watched The Wizard of Oz, and that one scene where the guys behind the curtain and stuff, and they said, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. And the meme was when they pulled back the curtain, there was a guy sitting there working on Revit. Yeah, you that's that's it's it's it's a sorely needed skill set in this industry that uh I think probably has probably the most uh most opportunity for growth right now, if you know Revit's huh. What a great conversation. I appreciate you know, Shelly, Heather, and Teresa for coming on and and sharing your ex your experiences and your insights. The one thing I hope everybody takes away from this is be supportive of everybody in this industry. Let's make this industry better, and it's better when everybody's involved in it. Till next time. Knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power.