AI Won’t Replace Every Installer Today, But It Will Reshape Your Job Tomorrow

We take a frank look at AI’s impact on low voltage and networking, from estimators and PMs to installers and engineers. Expect honest talk on what jobs change first, which skills pay off, and how to use AI without losing your edge.

• near-term risk for estimators, PMs, customer support via AI efficiency
• installers safer today yet exposed as robotics advances
• standards, grounding, firestop, and transmission basics as career moat
• predictive troubleshooting reducing break-fix firefights
• labs, certifications, and layer 1 mastery still critical
• AI-guided installs, image checks, and documentation at scale
• blueprint takeoffs, BOMs, and bids improved by AI tools
• shipping, firmware, and QA workflows automated to cut DOA
• merging lines between installers and engineers under AI
• five-year view of top-tier pros using agents and live audits
• human communication as the standout skill

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Chapters

• 0:00 Live Setup And FOA Detour
• 4:31 Why AI Is On The Agenda
• 7:45 Jobs At Risk And Where To Skill Up
• 12:20 Estimating, Takeoffs, And AI Tools
• 18:30 Troubleshooting Networks With Predictive AI
• 22:00 Certifications, Foundations, And Labs
• 27:00 Installers vs Engineers: Gap Or Bridge
• 33:00 Shipping, DOA Gear, And AI QA
• 38:00 Raising The Bar For New Entrants
• 44:00 What Top-Tier Pros Look Like In Five Years

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Eastern Standard Dime. Second Limit One Thing. Live after hours with your favorite RCDD. And you know that's me. Don't even try to pretend like you like another RCDD. You know I'm the best. You know it. You know I'm your favorite. Actually, yeah, when I was at the Big City conference, I had several people come up to me and say, my favorite RCDD. It's funny how they pick up on little things and just kind of resonate with people. So tonight's show is different. It's special. It's special. When I do the uh when I do the posting of it, I'll see if I can't download the live talk feed for the live feed from TikTok so that we can get it on. But he's not on the live on the LinkedIn and the other. So you're just gonna hear him. But I got the volume turned up all the way. Special show about AI. AI, not actual intelligence, not uh assuming intelligence, but artificial intelligence. And why is Chuck talking about AI? Hmm, I wonder why. Because next month, Chuck is going to Costa Rica to be a keynote speaker about AI and how it impacts this industry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I'm also teaching a master class too on bonding and grounding. It's funny, the people who are coordinating the event, I sent them the slides and they looked at it. They said, Can you really talk about this for 90 minutes? I said, the challenge will be finishing in 90 minutes. Not getting to 90 minutes. Because I tend to be a chatty cathy about fire stopping and bonding and grounding. And well, let's be honest, all things low voltage. Let's just be honest, right? So let's do the acronym challenge. Tonight's acronym challenge is FOA. F-O-A. I didn't have time to change the acronym challenge. Sorry, people. But there it is. FOA. Tell me in the chat box what does FOA stand for? I'll give you a hint. It was actually for the topic that tonight's show was supposed to be. But Chuck forgot that he invited Ed Yul Tech guy on to talk about AI. So I had to switch gears at the last literally minute and a half and come up with new questions and knock this out. FOA, come on, people. Let's see. Nobody's guessed it so far. Let me put on the chat and see if anybody said it in the private chat. No, no. Um I'd like to have I'd like to have you teach a fire stopping class in Plant City. That's a possibility because Plant City is only about an hour for me. Only about an hour for me. So for those of you who didn't bother to guess, FOA, the Fiber Optic Association. And again, that was supposed to be tonight's content. I was going to talk about fiber cleaning. I was going to plug my new Tempo FIP 100 fiber inspection tool that got sent to me. So watch for the unboxing video of this. So I'm going to unbox it. I'm going to tell you exactly what I think of it. Cool stuff. But again, I shifted gears because I forgot last week I talked to Ed the Oltech guy and said, hey, let's do a show on AI. Artificial intelligence. Not actual intelligence. I don't know why I'm in. Oof. My dog has gas. Holy Toledo. Can you tell if ADHD? Wow. I'm telling you, it is active tonight. Active tonight. So FLA tonight. Oh, and forgot the most common thing. What are you drinking? What are you drinking? Ed, what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_00: 3:46

Nothing. I was supposed to get my water. I was supposed to get my water.

SPEAKER_01: 3:50

Chuck is drinking Earl Grey tea. Earl gray tea. So tell us in the chat box. What are you drinking? Maybe that's why Chuck's so wound up tonight because there's caffeine in it. Tonight's show is about AI. Make sure I pull up the right notes. AI, artificial intelligence. Now again, I know Ed has been pre- I told Ed, I think it was about a week ago, maybe a little bit more. I said, hey Ed, I'm doing a show. I mean, I'm doing a keynote speak on AI. Do you have any information? He blew my phone up for the next three hours with videos for me to watch. And I'm telling you, I'm even more scared of this industry in AI now, after I've watched those videos. I'm telling you, lots and lots of stuff. So Ed's coming on tonight. Um, we're gonna talk about how AI impacts the low voltage industry or the limited energy industry. That's what they call us now in the 2026 code book. We're limited energy integrators. So we're gonna talk about how AI impacts it. And because Ed, even though he does low voltage cabling, he's really more well known for network kind of stuff, engineers, switches, and stuff like that. So, so great, great thing going on. Let me take a sip of my caffeine because I needed just a tad bit more energy. Ed, welcome to the show, my friend. How you doing? Uh no mic. No mic.

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

That that would help. That would help. Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to come uh on your show and and and chat with you. I know this is probably, I think, my third time on your show, and uh I appreciate it. Uh AI is something I've been talking about now since 2020, a little bit before that. I've gotten uh mixed reactions when I talk about it. Some people think that I'm on I'm right on the money, and others think that I'm far off, and I can't wait. Yeah, they think I'm loony bin sometimes. Uh I was asked a very interesting question. That uh, you know, where do I see sometimes what I talk about takes us to a little bit doom and gloom. People start thinking that I'm talking about Terminator type uh situation. And that's not where I want the audience to go. Uh I I'm a big believer of what our forefathers of this country kind of used to preach, which is uh prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That has always been, that has always been my model in life. And um I think that it's a good way to think about what's happening with AI. So expect some really tough times that may happen with AI, but let's hope for the best.

SPEAKER_01: 6:27

Yeah, it's kind of hard for people not to get wound up over AI because who I think it was literally like within the last week, or maybe I just noticed it in the last week. Elon Musk said he wants to put a million satellites in orbit as an orbital data center. Hello, Skynet! Hello, Skynet, right?

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

Literal, literal Skynet.

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

I mean, it's hard to not get wound up over AI. It truly, truly is not. So I had just to show you the how to harness the power of AI, literally, with like 90 seconds before the show, Ed popped on. I was like, oh yeah, that's right, we're talking AI. I forgot the questions. So I went to my low, my my favorite AI, you know, language model, and I said, Hey, I'm doing a show with Ed, the old tech guy tonight. Can you give me 15 questions that low voltage installers, network engineers want to ask about AI? And whoop. Now it did good. Like lame time with with with with uh with AI, it's always about 80% on the nose, 20% out in the left field, right? That's just kind of typical for what we're dealing with with AI now. Until we get to agentic AI or the next AI level, then then it gets really, really scary. So we're gonna go through not all 15 questions, we're gonna go through the highlights ones because I do have a hard stop. I've got I can't let this go past 645 because get off at 645. I got 15 minutes to get ready for my telecommunications distribution designers study group. That's a mouthful. That's a mouthful. All right, so let's get you over the first one. All right. What parts of low voltage installers do you think AI will never be able to replace, no matter how smart it gets? Go.

SPEAKER_00: 8:12

Oh, that's a tough one. Uh, everybody's gonna say the typical one, which is gonna be pulling cable, setting up conduit, uh, the actual installation, the dressing of the cable, uh, even the labeling of the cable. It may pre-label things for you, but you actually have to put it on there. Now, I say that carefully because then you have Elon Musk talking about his robots that he's gonna sell for$20,000. And they used to be pretty clunky and not moving very well. And then recently, some type of software updates have happened because now they're breakdancing and they're actually moving in very human-like ways. So, how safe is it? The thing that I think is gonna be important is that's that you learn and understand your standards. It's gonna be very difficult for AI to check for things like Firestop, because you have to crawl in certain spaces so certain robots can't get in there. Um, certain grounding uh situations, make sure you're grounding correctly, you know, where you have to lift up tiles to make sure that grounding is coming up correctly and it's it's bolted on correctly to racks, things of that nature. You're gonna have a tough time. But here's the thing, and here's what every CEO and everybody is saying, and even Ed the Altec guy has been saying there's gonna be jobs affected, there's gonna be jobs eliminated. Make sure that your skills are aligned to make it as difficult as possible for that to happen. This doesn't mean that everybody's job is gonna be eliminated or that nobody's job is gonna be eliminated. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some jobs will be eliminated, so make yourself hard to get laid off.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

So I'm gonna counterpoint you. Point counterpoint. Um I feel that if you're a if you're an installer pulling cable, you shouldn't be scared for your job today. Ten years today, you absolutely need to be scared about your job. Because I watched them same videos, Mr. Ed, and I'm telling you, some of them videos, some of those robots, I mean, they they were laying down and they literally stood up and then spun the top portion, the torso, did a 360. Find me an installer who's that agile.

SPEAKER_00: 10:18

Wait, wait until you get wait till you get one of those robots that could get himself in the ladder rack and just roll himself through the ladder rack pulling the cable.

SPEAKER_01: 10:25

But you know what? Here's a here's what an AI robot will never do. It'll never show up hungover, it'll never show up late, it'll never back talk to you and say, I don't want to do that. I'm telling you, I I've said this a million times. It's only gonna take somebody extremely intelligent like Elon Musk to say, wait a minute, I got robots. There's 10 million people short in this industry. Hmm, I got some smart engineers. Let's see if they can do some break dancing, because they can do breakdancing. They can pull cable. They can pull cable, right? So yeah, your job's on your job's on the on the hatchet too. Like, but you're down the road still. The people that I fear are gonna lose their jobs today are project managers, estimators, and customer service people. And why do I say that? Because right now, AI is absolutely capable of making a person more efficient in their job so a company may go from 5 p.m. to 2 p.m. Hate to say it. I mean, it's affected me in the podcast. I mean, I'd be able to do four times as much with the podcast now because I use AI daily, daily, that normally I'd be like, oh, that's you. Those are the people gotta watch out for. Those are the people I watch out for.

SPEAKER_00: 11:40

Next question, Mr. Oh, go ahead. Uh I was just gonna say, and and think about this. You're you're you're guys like estimators, they're they're doing it today when in other fields, where you take up your iPad and just go around a car, and the insurance estimators are developing the costs right away. They're double checking their estimators, and you know what's happening is that those estimators, because they're putting that AI agent on their piece of equipment, are actually training the AI agent when things make when it makes a mistake, they say, Nope, it's this, this, the this. The AI agent remembers it, it goes into its beta late, it understands what's happening and remembers it for next time.

SPEAKER_01: 12:20

So I was at a Bixie show two years ago, and a friend of mine came up to me because I love the exhibit all, because that's where that's kind of like what you went through. You went through the exhibit all for Nika. Bixie has that Tim. Okay. I love that place because you can see all the new products and stuff. This guy grabbed me and said, Chuck, you gotta see this, and he pulls me away. I was literally having a conversation with somebody. And he pulls me away, he takes me to this booth, and I can't, I wish the guy gave me his card. I wish I could find his card. It's a company that if you get issued as built or blueprints, you can put it in the computer, it'll do the takeoffs. It'll tell you the number of drops, the number of cables, the number of jacks. So that's here now. That's here now. It's been here for two years. Right? Two years. So there you go. Um, let's hit you with the next one. Um, because I already kind of answered question number two. Um, question number three. If you're a tech who only knows how to pull and terminate cable, what should be scaring you right now?

SPEAKER_00: 13:15

Oof. Dang, that's a good question. Um, not knowing standards and information that that you need to know in order to, you know, your building codes, your standards, your all of that. Sure, AI can do it with a machine and a camera. We're talking about that happening in the future, but it's gonna be those tight places that you can't get a camera easily in, right? Like drop ceilings or behind walls, where it's gonna be very difficult for the camera to really understand what's happening. That's when AI or a robotic agent or somebody is gonna need a human to come in and help with that, with, with that. And that person may not need to necessarily be as skilled as as today's uh employees, but skilled enough to know. And the the better skilled you are at this point in time, the higher in management you're gonna go. So I would be, I would really know my all my all my all my building codes, my cable types, my connector types. I would I would have that very well memorized. Sure, AI can just spit it out, but it's the scene, processing, and decision making that right now at this moment, probably for the next five years or so, maybe more, we're gonna beat it, right? We're beating it at that. It may beat us later, but it we're beating it right now.

SPEAKER_01: 14:36

Yeah, I agree with you, I'm just saying. I don't have a counterpoint in that one because I feel the exact same way. Do you think AI is likely to replace bad installers or expose bad processes?

SPEAKER_00: 14:49

I think it's gonna be a little of both. So I think that the what the future holds is a very young, um, untrained installer where they're carrying around their AI agent, be it an iPad or smart glasses or something else, right? They're gonna be walking around with this, that it's gonna be guiding them. Oh, by the way, here's how you terminate this this. Here's how you plug the the SFP in. Oh, this is an SC to SC cable. Here's how you terminate that fiber as they're watching the video and doing it. They're not necessarily gonna be well trained, they're gonna get trained on the job with AI guiding them to do it, and that means that that may be a lower-paid job. Um I I think it's gonna help in accuracy because it is gonna go ahead and and take images as you're working and tell you to correct things or snitch on you and say you didn't do these things so that somebody can come in and fix it. So the the the the inspectors of tomorrow may simply just watch the video of your install. They may not actually go on site and have to look at it.

SPEAKER_01: 15:54

I saw a um either I saw a video or somebody told me about it. I can't remember which, because again, my ADHD squirrels. Um there's a construction company out there, the GC, the construction manager, has one of those like dog robots that you can buy for like five, six thousand dollars. And it walks the construction site once a day. Now, right now it's only looking for safety stuff, but you know what? It's only gonna take a little bit of programming, a little bit of teaching that that AI to look for bad installers. I think what's gonna happen is AI will take some, not all, words are important here, some of those bad installers and make them into average or good installers. I really do think that. Because I think it's gonna expose those bad processes. You know, you know, if the testers have them too already, I mean, you get a certified engine and it comes back and says and you don't know what it is. Yeah, there's a chart that you can look it up. Okay, it failed because of alien cross-talk. Here's five different reasons. But if you got an engineer on board, an AI engineer on board who can look at it with the eyes of one of the engineers back at the corporate, they can say, Oh, well, here's the real problem. You have a crosstalk issue at 33 feet because these these two pairs are doing it. So it's gonna help those bad installers become average or good installers and expose some of those badder processes, badder, worse, it's worse processes.

SPEAKER_00: 17:14

You you're still gonna need an RCDD to sign off on plans, on installations, things of that nature. So that's one of the reasons I'm telling people, and I think that's that's the point I was trying to make before, that you need to grow your skills. Make sure you're not stuck as just a guy pulling the cable. You need to grow because it's those managers, those upper-level people who are gonna be signing off on stuff, the human oversight that's that is that that is expected. The other thing though, I do see a plus. I think that uh the accuracy in bidding will be better, meaning that more jobs will be profitable because AI will do a better job of allowing those technicians or those dispatched techs to um survey a plant and know how to build that job correctly. I think that's one of the biggest problems with people today. They don't know how to bill for a job.

SPEAKER_01: 18:05

Right, they don't. And there's and you know, and let's be honest, an estimate is an estimate. It's not the actual price of the job, and there's a lot of opinions that go into it. That's why if you ask five estimators for a price of a job and you give them the exact same information, you're gonna get seven different prices. Because estimators are just like that. Let's shift into your domain, Mr. Ed, talking more about engineers now, network engineers. How do you see AI changing troubleshooting, especially for intermittent issues that can't be replicated?

SPEAKER_00: 18:37

Oh man. This is a loaded question. So, with AI being integrated in networks, we're going towards a more predictive model of breakfix maintenance. What I mean by that is that it is the AI that is being injected in telecommunications networks or LAN networks, WAN networks, is doing a really good job of hearing all the noise on the on the plant or the network and deciphering the issues that are happening or may happen in the future, and saying, by the way, card one on that the WDM Cienna box or that switch over there, that layer two switch, is acting up. And I've caught it act up three times at midnight for 30 seconds. And it may be time to either reseat that or would you like me to reboot the whole box? Because AI could then automatically potentially reboot the box. And I think I think that that is where we're going, where you're gonna see a lot of AI handling issues before they happen, making networks more stable. And that unfortunately costs some jobs because you don't need as many network engineers if the network is performing very solid.

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

Right. So here's another question for you, and this is a great one, too. I love this question. Um, for new network engineers, new network engineers, how much foundational knowledge do they still need to know if AI can suggest the fixes? Because you all know, you know, everybody starts off with that what that CCNA and they kind of work their way up. Do they still need those lower level certifications if AI can suggest how to fix stuff?

SPEAKER_00: 20:20

Well, 100%. Not only do they need the lower level certifications, they need the lower uh the lower level experience. So if you're a network engineer and you're in the business, you better have a lab at home. You better have a lab that you can work on and test and see. Because where AI is gonna where companies are gonna have a problem deploying AI is in the physical portion or the layer, the layer uh one, some call, some keep people call it layer zero, but the layer one plant of your network. The an SFP that is not plugged in correctly, a a fiber that is just bent enough to cause attenuation that causes just a little dribble of problems, right? Those type of things are things that humans will catch before a machine does, at least for the next five, 10 years. And notice that we're staying within that time frame because we can't predict beyond that because things are moving so quickly. Those that are deep in the field of AI are even scared to predict beyond five years. They're saying that within five years, many of them are hoping to eliminate 80% of the workforce. This is the number that they keep throwing out there. But what we're but I think more realistically, we're probably looking at 20 to 30, maybe even 40% of the workforce. So, what does that mean for network engineers? It means that you better have your foundation really well seated because you're gonna need to move up in networking very quickly. You're gonna be the guy that that that AI and others are gonna ask. Check my design. Do I have the right ports open? Do I have the right ports designed? Do I have the right uh equipment? Uh, you're gonna have a lot more responsive. Because AI is gonna just spit it out, and you can't rely on on your gut. You're gonna have to check it line by line and make sure that it's right.

SPEAKER_01: 22:09

Yeah, like we said now, you know, the uh um with AI, I'm I mentioned it earlier because I used AI to create the questions for the show, and it was about 80% right. And I find that through every task that I give AI right now, it's 80% right. But at some point, it's gonna be 90% right, 95% right, 100% right. So eventually at some point, but that you know that scares the daylights out of me because you you said you know, even if we only lose 20% of the workforce, you know, I I it's not gonna affect me as much because I'm looking to retire soon. But somebody who's 21, 22, 23 with you know, a couple young kids and they gotta figure that's scary. That's absolutely scary, man. Absolutely scary. Let me ask you this question, Ed. Could AI help bridge the gap between installers and network engineers, or will it widen that divide?

SPEAKER_00: 23:07

Oh, that's an interesting question. Um, I think that's a very interesting take. Because I think that it will merge some of it. I think what's gonna end up happening, if you're not careful, is that some network engineers that did not that are not well trained and not ready to move up to be that architect level to make sure that the network is being deployed right, designed correctly, are gonna start going for those plant jobs where they're pulling cable. Because many of them say, and and you'll see this all over the social media, AI can't do this. And then they show that they installed the routers and they installed all the cabling and installed the racks and everything. And I'm sitting there going, like, I'm sorry, but that's a layer that that is a uh an installer's job. You just did an installer's job. Actually, I left a comment for somebody on their video and they were very insulted because I said, So, what you're telling me is that AI is gonna drop your title from architect or engineer to an installer. And so I think there's gonna be some melding and some fighting for position there between the two jobs, or it's gonna be that RCDDs and cable pullers and those guys, right, are gonna have to move up the stack and start learning those, and it won't be as hard anymore because you'll now have AI to guide you to move upward.

SPEAKER_01: 24:37

Yeah, I I think, and this is kind of why I'm gonna tie in AI with our current social, economical divide right now. I'm not gonna get political, trust me. But we're we're so we're so we're getting more and more entrenched in our own camps, you know, this camp or that camp or that camp, you know, politically, but that I think that's gonna I think that's gonna manifest it even into the trades, right? So I think I think it's probably gonna divide us more. So the installer, you know, who has AI, using AI robots, I think is gonna be even further apart not understand because the the network engineer, network person who's using AI is gonna appear even more smarter to them than a cable guy will. So I think it's gonna I think it's gonna divide us even more, which I hate to say that, but I that's that's my my feelings on it. Next question. I need another Chuck Bowser masterclass. Yeah, hey, I got some exciting news coming out within the next seven to ten days. Some really, really cool news. I'll share it with Ed after this live stream, but I'm not gonna do it on the live stream just yet.

SPEAKER_00: 25:43

All right, so move on. Before you ask your next question, may I inject something different just for one minute? Okay. So 20 years ago, I was telling the technicians that I was working with, it used to be like 30 of us working downtown Chicago for the telecommunication services there. And in that time, I heard our CEO say something. He said, I need to eliminate expenses, and anything not shooting light, electrical, or data or packets is anything that's doing that is an asset. Anything that's not doing that is an expense. And you all are expenses. So I have to make some hard decisions. And I said from that moment on, I said, if they can figure out how to eliminate us, they're gonna do it. Now, 20 years ago, they what they did is they go, they went from they went from 30 to 20 to 10 to 4. And just recently, they laid off the last remaining people. And I got a call from from the young guy I mentored at that time, he was younger than I was, and he said, you were always right about that. Now, with that being said, I have been predicting about AI, and a lot of people have been saying, eh, I'm not sure about it. Let me give you a quick situation. Uh, installers also install devices at uh at customer prem's, uh the NIDs, the the equipment that they have to set up, right? The the CPE equipment.

SPEAKER_01: 27:12

Right now, there are companies, acronym CPE, customer premise equipment. Good, good. Here you go.

SPEAKER_00: 27:21

Right right now, there are there are telecommunications companies using AI to make sure that they solve the issues before they happen. And what happens with CPE on an install? You get the wrong power cord, you get the wrong SAP, you get the wrong device, it's got the wrong firmware, it's you you plug it in and it's not working. You can't, you know, you don't even have the right connector to communicate with it because the communicate the communication port is either USB, it's Cat 6, it's Ethernet, or it's uh it's uh DB9. You don't know, right? All those problems happen at an install. Right now, some companies are deploying AI to ensure that those devices are shipped correctly with the right power cord, the right device, the right firmware, and it's been bench tested and shipped correctly and received by the customer. So it's plug and play. If they're doing that already, guess what they just did to that installer's job that installs that?

SPEAKER_01: 28:12

Gone. Let me ask you this question. This is not even on the list. Um, Zoo Miller, the answer to your question is it's called LevNet, and it's hosted on uh it's a website called bluehost.com, something or another. So easy learned. Lots of free training there. Um, I didn't even think about this that so how do you think AI is gonna impact the network engineer? So not necessarily much the network engineer, but you know, the line's getting blurred between us and low voltage cable installers and people just putting in switches. So there's a lot of companies who are putting in switches, doing some basic level programming, not network engineering kind of stuff, right? You know, there's a phenomenon on the uh active side of the of the of the equipment side. Uh I can't try to remember what that term is called. Um DOA. So a piece of equipment is DOA. How's AI gonna make that network engineer better or that that cable installer better if it's dead on dead on arrival?

SPEAKER_00: 29:10

Just because I explained, right? That equipment is being shipped, bench tested, making sure that it gets shipped to the customer and it's plug and play. It's already getting taken care of. And that AI is monitoring everything from the from the shipping label to the guy bench testing it, to the guy making sure he's got the right power cords, and it's been tested before it gets shipped.

SPEAKER_01: 29:31

Counterpoint. You know, that comes from the factory already tested with a little QA sticker on it. Hey, this isn't done by uh Inspector 45, and they they turned it on, they powered. You and I both know being shipped by UPS or or FedEx or you name a common carrier because they bang it around and it's going from, you know, you know, maybe maybe that maybe that manuf chip manufacturer, not chip, maybe that switch manufacturers in Colorado at 7,000 feet above sea level, and it's getting sent to Miami, which is four feet above sea level, right? And you and I both know, even though it's tested at the factory, you're still gonna get DOA equipment. Not maybe not as much, but you're still gonna get DOA equipment.

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

Very good point. And and I guess, and I and I didn't do a good job of breaking this down because what I forgot to mention in my statement is many companies are employing a management company, uh an in-between person, a middle person between the actual uh factory that is making the equipment, whether it be Cisco or Juniper, because they're not really installing the equipment. They're not the ones really making sure that everything is done at the end. They're just making the equipment, shipping it, right? So you've got companies like CDW, you've got companies, all these middle companies that sit in the middle that are gonna order that equipment, use that AI and those capabilities. I'm not saying CDW does that. There are companies that do do that, that have AI make sure that all of that's done before it gets to the customer. So that eliminates any DOA issues, dead on arrival issues.

SPEAKER_01: 31:08

Right, right. Here's another question for you. Um Do you think AI is gonna raise the bar for what it means to be qualified to be able to take a position as a network engineer or a low voltage guy? Let me let me explain what qualified is before we get to because there's two types of qualifications, right? There's the qualified in the code book, which talks about electrical and that's why the shift in the hey, why are we in the house? Um that's why the shift in the 2026 code book to change the name of our industry. That's one of the reasons. Because they want qualified people doing the work, which basically is at some point they're gonna change that to mean, oh, well, that means journeyman electricians. I'm not talking about that qualification. I'm talking about the people right now who I talk to on a daily basis, and I say, hey, Chuck, I'm brand new to the industry. You know, what classes do you think I should take? Um, do you think I should uh, you know, and I always recommend you know get an entry-level course like the Bixie uh installer one or the FLA basic one as well. Do you think AI is gonna raise the bar for those kinds of people trying to get into the industry?

SPEAKER_00: 32:16

Unfortunately, whenever we're talking about AI, we're talking about shades of gray. It's gonna, yes, do that, and no, it's not gonna do that. And it's gonna do that in two different ways. You got guys today that are using AI to know how to do something and not really learning it. They're just taking the quick instruction, following the instructions, and once they do it, they don't really retain it. They just did it because AI told them. But then you're gonna have the other uh other people who are using AI to really learn. And as they use AI as a as a uh countermedium to really understand how to do the job, it will grow them as an installer. You're gonna have installers on both sides of the spectrum, and it and you're gonna start seeing guys that can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. And you're gonna start seeing guys that can walk the walk but can't talk the talk. So you're gonna have you're gonna have to really interview people. And and here's what I would say as a as a network engineer, you have to have a lab. As an installer, I would love to see your media install at your house. You should be showing how you brought your cables in, how you laced them up, how you did all that road?

SPEAKER_01: 33:24

You want to go down that road? Because I saw pictures of yours, Mr. You're using a uh bookshelf for your rack. I saw it.

SPEAKER_00: 33:32

Yes, that's how I started out. But did you see how I upgraded it? Did you see I got a two a telecommunications two-post rack, uh, you know, typical uh uh what is it, uh 40 40 something RMU uh two post, right? And I I hung everything beautifully and now everything's nice and because I was embarrassed. How am I gonna talk about this stuff? And I'm gonna show that. So I think AI is really gonna affect both sides of the spectrum, and it's gonna be difficult to really know the candidates until they do the work. And it's gonna be really ugly. You're gonna have guys that are gonna be able to answer questions and sounds smart. They're gonna know all the megahertz between cables, they're gonna know all the connectors, but then you're gonna put them to do it, and they're not gonna be able to do anything.

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

Caitlist has a great comment. He says, AI needs to figure out how to solve paging issues at grocery stores so I can do other activities. I got a better one. I got a better one. AI needs to fix the speakers at the drive-thru at McDonald's so you can have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 34:31

It needs to fix the the soft serve, the the ice cream machines at McDonald's. How about that?

SPEAKER_01: 34:36

You can be a gazillionaire if you come up with an AI platform that keeps the ice cream machine working 24-7 at McDonald's. 24-7. Uh okay, here's another great question for you, Mr. Ed. Uh, if you're mentoring a young 22-year-old person trying to get into low voltage or limited energy, like we like to call it now, what would you tell them to learn first? Cabling or data?

SPEAKER_00: 35:00

Ooh, well, wow, wow, that's a good one. Um, you know what? I would start out with cabling because I started out in cabling. I started out at the most lower level. I started out installing phone lines, then uh T1s, ABAM cable, uh, you know, and then moved up to fiber optics and to Sonnet and uh and just kept moving up from there. And it really gives you a good foundation when you actually touch it, smell it, feel it. That's another thing that I like to say all the time. You have to touch it, feel it, smell it. Your senses have to be there. And as you start learning the data piece of it, you almost start developing these instincts. Uh, it's even harder to describe. You're able to troubleshoot something a little faster because you understand that. You know somebody's good when they're able to talk to you over the phone and tell you how to reboot a modem, how to install that SFP, how to how to what connect to what on a router, because you obviously have something connected incorrectly, right? I I helped I helped somebody troubleshoot something once, and this happened very recently, where it's a perfect example. They got their CCNA, they're all these certifications, they're big time guys, and they're having a problem on their router. And I said, listen, um, it's obviously you don't have an up up condition and something's weird. I'll bet you I know what it is. He said, What? I said, roll your cable, roll your cable. He's like, I can't. It's stuck, it's got that, it's got that plastic on it. I said, disassemble that plastic and flip one of the sides and plug it in. You need transmit to receive and receive to transmit. And I'll bet you it'll work. Now, how did I do that? It's just that instinct you begin to develop. You don't get that instinct unless you start from the bottom up.

SPEAKER_01: 36:41

So I agree, you have to start at the bottom up. But I think I would go more towards a route towards the data. And here's why anybody who's ever taught a class or or and wire for elections would probably agree for me, and so would uh D Romeo in the uh in the chat feed on YouTube. Um, and that's what you know, the J A T C the Joint Apprentip Training Council, the people who train uh electricians, low voltage people for the unions, Bixie, and even that even the FOA. They don't start off with this is an LC connector, that's an SC connector, this plug. No, they start off with the fundamentals, right? The T the telecommunications distribution methods manual, 22 pages of pure ICT delight, 2,200 pages. The very first chapter is not what is a 110 block, not what is a patch panel. The very first chapter is called the principles of transmission, because you need those foundations so you understand when he started talking about you know the dialectic consonant and and crosstalk issues. So when they talk about that, you kind of understand the why behind. I had a guy tell me one time, and I've said this before on the show. I had a guy tell me one time, he his his company sat in with my day jobs class, day job class, and he actually had the nerve. I said he rated this the training really low. And if it's below, if it's below four, you get an email from me. Hey, appreciate the appreciate the uh appreciate the comments. I strive for excellence. Give me one thing I could do to make 10% better, or tell me where I missed, because I want to learn, I want to be better. And he responded back as well. This is really a design course. My guys don't really care about EMI and what it is and the and the three components. What? How do you expect them to be able to troubleshoot things if they don't understand the foundational principles? The foundational principles. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. You guys one more question? We hit all 15 and we got six minutes because it's 6.39. This is gonna be a fun show to edit and put out tonight. Watch. Um so five years from now, five you keep you keep picking that number five years. Five years from now, what does a top tier, top tier installer or network engineer look like compared to today's?

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

Wow. Wow, man, these answers, these questions are good. Um what does a top-tier installer? What does a top-tier installer look like in five years? Uh I think what looks like today. I'm sorry, say that one more time.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

Well, compared to how a top-tier installer or network engineer look today.

SPEAKER_00: 39:12

Compared to today, yeah. Uh the the the main difference is they are using the tools that will be um obvious at that time, which will be AI agents, AI inspectors looking over their bid, looking over the proposal, looking over the the job. As they do the job, as they as they pull a cable and give each cable a birth certificate, it's taking an image and sending it to the customer so that the customer understands each stage of the job happening. So they are gonna be so integrated with AI and technology that they'll be walking around potentially with a camera right in their hat or some type of glasses where that as they do the job, it is instantly sending information to not only the customer, but sending information to the inspector who is gonna be looking for grounding issues, fire stop issues, making sure that the cabling has enough slack in it, making sure that that things are crimped correctly and all of that, right? The installation method, right? It's gonna be an installer who is not scared to be on camera doing the work that he does and being judged by that work and taking no shortcuts because AI will be like, oops, you gotta do that again. You just did it, you got to do it again because you just screwed up. And I really think that's what's gonna happen. Compared to today, what what you have is somebody just knowing that they're doing a good job. I mean, you got some great installers that watch this show, like All Green Lights, um, the all the other guys that we love to talk about, right? Their work is gorgeous and they know what they're doing. It comes from pure um uh past knowledge, but the oversight there is themselves. The oversight in the future will be the AI hanging off of somebody. You've we've seen those Milwaukee and Hilty things that help you lift stuff. How long before that stuff is connected to you and making sure you have the stuff watching what you're doing and correcting it as you move forward?

SPEAKER_01: 41:17

Wasn't it Elon Musk that was talking about implanting a chip in your head or something?

SPEAKER_00: 41:23

Yes, yes, but I don't want to go that far because then people start saying that I'm going nuts.

SPEAKER_01: 41:28

Conspiracy theorists, conspiracy theorists, you're crazy, you're crazy, crazy. I I tell you who I'm fearful the most. And I guarantee you, probably 60% of the people watching this or watching this now, or 60% of the people who uh are going to be in this industry. Do you know how many classes I've taught, face-to-face classes? Because we shifted to doing, instead of doing a sign-in sheet with paper and pen, to actually coming to my computer and typing in their name. And do you know how many times take a guess? What percentage do you think these again, younger people, not necessarily boomers like me, but younger people who come up to a computer working intact, working, pulling cables, terminatles, setting up routers, do the two-finger type because they don't know the home route. Take a guess, a percentage.

SPEAKER_00: 42:23

You know what? I'm gonna say a very large percentage. I'm gonna say like 80% because I've seen it. I've seen it live. Even network engineers, I watch them type, and I'm like, you don't even know how to type. You're you're typing two fingers or one finger and they're moving quickly.

SPEAKER_01: 42:38

You know, the funny thing is, is I tell that story quite often. I've said it more than once on the podcast. The reason I know the home row is not because when I was 17 years old that I had the foresight to say, you know, in 30 years from now, computers are gonna be taking over the world, so I really should learn how to type. No. The real reason I took it was a lot simpler. I looked at the class, there's 30 people in the class, 28 of them are girls, two of them are guys. I was your typical 16, 17. I want to be in a class where I have a target-rich environment. That's why I took typing, and I failed it miserably. Failed it miserably, but it taught me the home row.

SPEAKER_00: 43:19

But 10 years from now, no one's typing, Chuck. Now people will be speaking and it will be typing for them.

SPEAKER_01: 43:25

That's now. That's now it's not 10 years from now. There's there's programs that will do dictation.

SPEAKER_00: 43:30

Oh, oh, I I know that, but it's really, it's really terrible. It's terrible at it. What's gonna happen is that AI is going to hear what you're saying and predictively clean it up. And when when let's say you're saying, hey, I just finished this job, I installed uh uh 56 keystones, I've got uh 300 and something cable loop come in, blah, blah, blah. And you'll just give it a short thing like that. It's gonna write up a very beautiful, sounding, customer facing paragraph and send it to the Customer nice and clean, like you would have expected a professional to type it. So expect more professionals to not know how to physically type and expect more professionals. I know this is gonna sound bad, but expect them to be less of communicators. So the best of the best will actually be better at communicating with people, people to people, than less. And the technology is gonna take you towards the less group. So don't allow it to take you there.

SPEAKER_01: 44:25

You're already talking to a group. A group of people who work in communications, and their worst skill set is right now, they don't know how to communicate. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 44:38

That's right.

unknown: 44:41

Mr.

SPEAKER_01: 44:41

Ed, thank you for coming on. We are at our hard stop. I appreciate you coming on talking to me about AI tonight. Let me hit the outro and then we'll stop the live stream.

SPEAKER_02: 44:51

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