AHL: Should I Apprentice Or Direct Hire

We weigh the real trade-offs between apprenticeship and direct hire for limited energy careers, from pay ladders and benefits to training quality, certifications, and safety. Stories from BICSI, a content mishap, and a few shout-outs frame a focused guide on starting smart and growing fast.

• union vs non-union structure and flexibility
• predictable pay steps and benefits compared with variable raises
• mentorship quality and how to learn fast on a crew
• certifications that matter and who supports them
• avoiding grunt-work traps with clear pathways
• routes into project management and design
• small market realities and choosing culture
• fiber training, advanced skills, and promotion timing
• safety as a baseline and when to walk away

Make sure you hit the like button, make sure you subscribe, make sure you do all the fun internet content creator stuff that we always ask you doing, right?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Housekeeping
• 2:00 BICSI Recap And Content Mishap
• 4:00 Acronym Challenge: RTPM
• 6:00 Study Group Launch And Tribute
• 8:00 Cool Finds: Goldilock And Testers
• 11:00 Main Topic Setup: Apprenticeship Vs Direct Hire
• 12:00 Union Vs Non-Union Landscape
• 15:00 Pay, Benefits, And Raises
• 18:00 Learning Speed And Mentorship
• 21:00 Certifications And Career Signaling
• 24:00 Avoiding Grunt Work Traps
• 27:00 Pathways To PM And Design
• 30:00 Protections, Firing, And Fit
• 32:00 Small Markets And Rural Realities
• 34:00 Fiber Skills And Advanced Exposure

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. There can only be one thing. Live after hours with Chuck Bowser, your favorite RCDD. You know I'm your favorite. So welcome back Wednesday night, live after hours with your favorite RCDD. You know that's me. You know that's me. Make sure you hit the like button, make sure you subscribe, make sure you do all the fun internet content creator stuff that we always ask you doing, right? Uh so let's make sure that we get this thing going. Got a lot of good show for you tonight. Um did you did you know that I created a content schedule for the entire year of 2026? The entire year. Yes, I know what the subject's going to be on every episode from now until December 31st. Of course, I may change it, but I got a schedule, right? I got a schedule. That's that's the cool thing about all that. So first I want to talk about what are you, we gotta get back to back to normal. What are you drinking? What are you drinking, right? So uh you know me, I love my tea, so I'm drinking roasted dandelion tea. Tell me in the chat box, what are you drinking? What are you drinking? Uh K-Man wants to know co-pilot or chat GPT. I do chat GPT, of course. So let me know what you're drinking in the chat box. Okay, you can be drinking anything because we're after hours, but I'm drinking roasted dandelion tea. Roasted dandelion tea. So last week was Bixie. Uh got lots and lots of content created, lots of stuff recorded. So you can see lots of stuff come out. Um, probably you know, one or two, uh one or two videos a day until I post them all. You want to hear a funny story? Just between us. Just between us. Don't tell nobody this, okay? This is a secret. This is a let's talk cabling secret. So make sure you don't tell anybody, okay? Um so the first day at the conference, I went to the exhibit hall and I went to a whole bunch of booths. Nolan and I went to a whole bunch of booths, and we recorded a bunch of stuff. Recorded a bunch of stuff. And uh 55 videos, four hours of content. Four hours of content. Couldn't use any of it. Could not use any. I had to throw it all away and redo everything all over the next night. Because you see, right before I went into the exhibit hall, what Chuck did was um he did a hyperlapse of the door to get you know, people streaming through the door real fast. Chuck forgot to turn off the hyperlapse. Oops. 55 videos, four hours of content, gone. Oh, but Chuck, it's so easy to be a content creator. Anybody can do it. All you gotta do is just hit record. Yeah. Welcome to my world. Welcome to my world. Any content creator will tell you. But the beard of knowledge is in the house. He makes great videos, great videos. I guarantee you he has made a mistake in making one of his videos. Probably not to not not to my level stupidity, but I guarantee you, I guarantee to you, he's had it, he's had an he's had an issue there, right? So there you go. So um, I want to pick an acronym, an acronym from from the Bixie conference. From the Bixie Conference. So here's the acronym challenge. Get your typing fingers ready. Typing fingers ready. 10,000 points to the first person who gets it. Okay. Uh RTPM. RTPM. What does that acronym mean? There were several learning sessions that dealt with this acronym. There were some publications that you could have bought that dealt with this acronym at the conference. So tell me in the chat box, what does RTPM stand for? Take another sip of mine. I I would have never thought that I would like roasted dandelion tea. I would have never thought that. Shotzi's in the house! I got to hang out with Shotzi, longtime fan. He's like one of the, he's like, if he's not the original fan, he is like the second original fan. He's he's been watching this podcast since day one. Day one. And technically, Shots me, correct me if I'm wrong. Day one, you were actually, you were actually a uh one of my students for my day job, if I remember right. Correct me if I'm wrong, right? So let me see. Oh, it was a tie. It was a tie between K-Man and Shotzi. Registered telecommunications project manager. Excellent, excellent. 10,000 points to both of you gentlemen. 10,000 points to both of you gentlemen. Yes, I am hyped up. I'm not, you know, funny thing is I don't drink I don't do caffeine. I don't do caffeine. In fact, roasted Daniel IT has no caffeine in it. And uh look at I'm all wound up. It's probably because tonight is the first study group. I started a new study group for this year, and tonight is the first class, and we're gonna be going through the TDMM. 23 weeks, 70 pages. I am so excited to get back into the groove, but I'm also kind of sad because this is the first class without Phil. Now, now some people will say, Phil, uh Phil brought value to this class. Some will say, well, Phil kind of went off on the waypoint. I don't care what you said, Phil's a great guy. Phil's a great guy. So this is the first class I'm teaching without Phil. So it's gonna be it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun. I mean that in a sarcastic way, too. Not a not a real way. So anyway, the Basic Winner Conference, before we get into the questions, by the way, tonight's show is uh is about apprenticeship or um direct hire, which is the best way to get into the show. So, you know, I really should post my content creator schedule online somewhere so you guys know when stuff's coming out. If I do that though, you gotta make sure you if I if I change the subject, for example, like next week is gonna change. Um if I change the subject, don't be yelling at me because I changed the subject. Because I reserve all rights and responsibilities to change the content as I see fit to fit the the as opportunities arise for the podcast. All right, let's get our way of that. But Bixie Conference. Bixie Winter Conference. Uh mooted over there on uh Saturday night, uh spent the night, had a had a uh meeting Sunday morning with my day job. We had a they always do a meeting there Sunday mornings. So I attended that meeting, got to learn some new stuff that we're coming out with, some pretty cool stuff. Uh can't talk about it, but you know, some cool stuff coming out. And then I attended uh conference uh attend not conference committee meetings for the rest of Sunday. And then there were some the the coolest things that I did at the Bixie winter conferences, and I guess I guess the first thing that I think was the coolest was uh they did a high school thing where they brought in, I don't know the exact number. I want to say it's like 25 to 30, maybe even up to 50. It wasn't 50. It wasn't no, it wasn't 50, maybe 25, maybe. High school students from Pasco County. They came over and uh one night and we we put them in the in a room, sat down, they we taught them how to fusion splice, which by the way, if you know me, that's one of my weaknesses. Oh, and I got some good news coming out about a fusion splicer in Chuck. Some great news coming out, so make sure you pay attention to future content. Chuck bought a fusion splicer. It's a secret, don't let that get out. Anyways, uh, it's one of my weaknesses. I told Chris Hobbs that when I was in the thing. Man, it's been years since I've done a fusion splicer. So I sat down at the emerging professional table and we talked a lot of high school students. And then after we got done, each person, yourself included, um, got a group of kids with their chaperones, and we got to walk them through the exhibit halls. And uh, yes, she does know I got her permission before I did came in. Um so we walked them through the exhibit hall. And of course, I what I did was I made sure I stopped at a booth that did copper and fiber uh cabling and connectivity. I stopped at a booth where they did testing, I stopped at a booth where we did fire stopping and uh some other stuff like that. So it's a great, great opportunity. I even told the high school teacher, or not teacher, the high school principal, my apologies, the high school principal, because she was talking to me about some program that they do. It's kind of like career night, but they don't call it career night anymore. Um, but they call it something. And I told her, I said, look, I'm in, I'm not too far from you. I'm only about an hour. Let me know the next time you do it, and if I'm available, I will come down. Fiber flippers in the house. Hey Fiber Flipper. Um I will come down and I will I will talk to your students, you know, and give them you know the lowdown on on the limit energy, low voltage industry, and why they should really consider that and the cool things we get to do. That was the that was the coolest thing I did. Uh well that that and I got to hang out with my with with uh uh with my best friend too. So so there you go. Got to hang out with him and and his wife and and kid as well. And then another cool thing was again, I told you about the exhibit hall. Did you I just put out a video today. Well, I well, I I edited it a couple days ago, but it just published today. There's a new thing called a new a new device that this company called Goldiloc put out. And what it does, it's got a it's it actually gives you a physical disconnect. So if somebody's trying to cyber attack your network, you can text it, you can you can you know send an email to it, you can do a bunch of other things, and it will physically disconnect from the network. Not a not a lot, I mean not a not a uh software disconnect, a physical disconnect. Make sure you go watch that video. And if you do watch that video, make sure you tell the Goldilocks peeps, hey, hey, I saw Chuck. I saw you on Chuck's show. Saw you, Chuck's show. So that was the whole that was the Bixie thing. So lots of other great stuff. Oh, and I did also the show right before Bixie, you saw that AM kicked out a new fiber tester, and so you know, um, you know, I did an episode with that, right? So fiber flipper says disconnect your upstream, or is it the agent, servers, computers? Yeah, um, it's you have to go watch the video of fiber flipper, right? It's it's a device where it can be copper or fiber, it's got an input and then an output, and then when you send the message to it, again, text, message, cell phone, email, whatever, however, it works, it physically disconnects it inside the box. So there's no connection to the internet. So they there's no way they can figure out and get around the software. It's a really cool thing. Really, really cool thing, right? Scandless is in the house! How are you doing, Mr. Scandless? Alrighty, so yeah, it's right now it's only on LinkedIn. Uh, we'll fix it and do a short out of it and put it on on regular platforms as well. Let's get into the questions for tonight, okay? Let's get into the questions because I've got 12 questions and it's already 11 after. Alrighty. Uh iHOGS, I can't wait to get more information at IAM Fiber Blue Tester. Absolutely, iHog. If you contact them, tell them Chuck sent you, okay? Tell them Chuck sent you because that actually helps me. That helps me a lot. So, first question comes from Jake on Instagram. And Jake asks, I'm brand new to low voltage. Is apprenticeship really worth the time? Or should I just apply for companies directly? So that choice might be limited by where you live. And what do I mean by that? There are some areas where you can only work union. There are some areas where you can only work non-union. There are some areas where you can work union or non-union. That's the first filter you got to go through. Okay? Now, I have some pretty strong feelings about the apprenticeship programs, uh, especially with the JATC, because I uh even though I was in a union for a short period of time, I never got to attend the JATC, but I know many JAT instructors. And I've seen you, I've even done a podcast episode where I went to a JATC and filmed it in Vegas. Make sure you go back and check that. There are some great, great, great JATC programs out there. Now, now, do I like J do I like do I like the apprenticeship? That's the JATC, getting an apprenticeship, working your way up, or just hiring to a company directly. So there's advantages and disadvantages to both. And make sure you put in the chat box what's your preference, right? So the apprenticeships. Why do I like apprenticeships? They give you structure, okay? They give you uh a clear path. You know, from day one, kind of like my study group tonight, everybody's got a copy of the reading plan. They know exactly what they're gonna be doing on week three, on week 12, on week 20, on week 23. They know exactly what they need to do. It's a pathway, right? That's why I love the apprenticeship programs. Because when you get in, they explain it all to you, and there's there you you're not just doing stuff just to do stuff. You there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and you are working your way to the end of that tunnel. So I like I like the apprenticeship programs for that. But but being hired directly by a company in a non-union area, that can make you earning money faster than a non-union in some areas of the country. But here's the problem though. The learning, the teaching, the mentorship at non-union companies, listen to this, is hit or miss. Hit or miss. It really depends on the company. There are some companies out there, like IES and and um and and Vision Technologies out of Baltimore, there are some companies out there that have great, fantastic training programs. But for every one of those kinds of companies, there's 50 companies in the low voltage industry that don't train or mentor brand new people. So it's hit or miss. Now, now the good thing is, if you go it's going back to the good union side of it, the apprenticeships are usually tied to some kind of formal schooling, and you know what your milestones are, and you know how much you're gonna make at those milestones, right? That's a good thing about that. The non-union side, again, it could vary widely. You could be working at one company, making not that much, and do the exact same thing in another company, be making three, four dollars more an hour. So it's kind of you know, it's kind of really varied. And, you know, it's sync or swim with non-union companies. They hire you unless you unless you know somebody in the company, it's sync or swim. So either they'll just say, ah, go out there and pull cable. Uh, what if you never pulled cable in your life? Uh, how do you attach that pulse ring to the cable? I've never pulled cable in my life, right? So on the non-union side, um, if there are great mentors out there, there are people who care about training people. If you happen to get hooked up with one of those people, man, you will not not look back twice. Not look back twice. This is question number two. This comes from Sarah from LinkedIn. Do union apprenticeships limit your flexibility or job choices later? Oh, that's a fantastic question. And as I said earlier, the the union training is standardized, which means you you're gonna know your your sk your skill level pretty well. And that helps you for your resume, that helps you for finding jobs. And a lot of times, you know, with union jobs, you're gonna go pretty much where the hall sends you, okay? Pretty much where the hall sends you. Um, and then the so you don't always have a whole bunch of flexibility. And you might be working for a really nice, neat job, like you know, again, I used to work for a large company that was union, Hinkles and McCoy, and we were doing the the Philly Stadium. So you might get on a really cool project like that, or you might get taken off the bench and you go sent to do a state farm somewhere. Okay, okay. But so then, you know, you just don't know. You're working for a company, and then next week you might be working for a different communications company. Non-union paths, they give you a little bit more freedom because you get to choose which companies you work for, and you also get to choose your specialty because you know, going through a formal program like the apprenticeship program, like the JTC, you might realize pretty early on, hmm, you want to do AV or you want to do something else, which they may or may not train you on. If you're not tied to the union, you can actually just go to another company that does that kind of stuff. So there's a little bit more flexibility on the non-union side when it comes to that. But you know what? The crust of the matter is whichever way you decide to go, whether it's the union or the non-union, neither one locks you in forever. What really matters, listen to this, listen to you guys in the back, listen up. What really matters is your reputation in this industry. It matters more than a logo. Tell me in the comments if I'm right. Does your reputation mean more in this industry? Yeah. Question number three. This comes from Mike on Facebook. Is it true that union apprentices make more than direct hires? Um maybe. Maybe. It just kind of really all depends on a lot of factors, right? Because you know, let's talk about the non-union side right now. What there what determines your pay rate? And what since we're talking about apprentices right now or people don't know anything, obviously it's not going to be your skill sets, right? It's going to be not going to be your skill sets. So your pay is going to be directed on your skill level, which you have zero, but more importantly, your pay that you get hired on by a non-union company with an apprentice level is going to depend on how much you impress the interviewer, how much you impress the person hiring you. Do you know somebody in that company? Those are all factors. Those are all factors. Right now, union apprentices usually, not always, will start lower, but their progress, their pay, pay scale goes up faster. It's consistent because the union contracts, you know, they know how much they're gonna be making in, you know, two years down the road, five years down the road, you know, they know that. On a non-union side, you hope, you hope at the end of the year that you did a good job and you're gonna get a raise. Get this done. A good thing another good thing about um about the union side is the benefits. You can't knock those benefits. Healthcare, retirement, those have real value. I know a lot of people getting in the industry right now who are 18, 19, 20, which this show is really geared for. Um, they they're not thinking about health insurance, they're not thinking about retirement, they're not thinking about, you know, um, what happens if I get, you know, if I get killed on the job or something like that. You know, insurance. I'm telling you, that has value. I didn't really understand the whole benefits thing until I started having kids. Then I realized, ooh, I need I need health insurance. Because before that, I thought I was invincible. I thought for sure I nothing can kill me. So the union side, you're gonna get a lot better benefits. Again, not saying that a non-union company won't give you good benefits, but the chances are higher of getting good benefits if you go with a union company, right? Because it's been negotiated uh and they've had you know a bunch of a lot of big reputation. There's there's big lawyers and and negotiators doing that stuff for the union. So great, great opportunity there, right? Uh Jay Malley says, I'm I'm I made prevailing wage on day one and has been downhill from there. Yeah, prevailing wage. Oh, that's a that's a show, that's a that's a show subject right there. Right there. Carlos from TikTok wants to know can you learn faster as a direct hire compared to an apprenticeship? Now, direct hires, they can certainly accelerate you and uh put you with a good strong crew. Absolutely, they can do that. Um the key is you got to impress them out of the gate. I got asked a question the other day, it might have been last week. It was last week, it was at the Big City conference. I was talking to some peers uh at my day job meeting, and they were talking about well, how do you get in the industry if you don't have any experience? And I told them, I said, well, find things that you do, hobbies and stuff like that, where, or maybe classes you might have taken in school, because we're talking about people who literally just graduated from high school, maybe classes you might have taken in high school, you know, like you know, electrical and stuff like that, that can that can that can be transferred over to that, right? But like I said, you know, you so what you're gonna have is you're gonna have a really small, small skill section, small job section. So the other sec your page, your resume should be one page, by the way. So the other section, what you really want to do is say, look, hey, I understand I don't have these challenges, but I'm a quick learner. I will be on time, I will be there every day, and I will show up ready, willing to work. That right there will get you a job without experience sometimes. Absolutely will get you a job sometimes. Now, the apprenticeships, yeah, the unions, yes, you're gonna learn the fundamentals. And you I here's something funny. Going through the apprenticeship program with the union, I guarantee you, anybody who sat in that class knows how to calculate, you know, voltage, voltage drop, know how to do the all that stuff where most low voltage guys outside of the union cannot do that. Cannot do that again. The union jobs, they're gonna protect you from being stuck from pulling cable forever. You can work your way up to be, you know, to a uh crew lead, to a job foreman, and then work your way up non-shop non-union shops. Um, they can be very amazing and they can also be very terrible. The key is if you're deciding to go the non-union route, make sure you do your research. Make sure you do your research on that company. How long have they been around? What's their reputation within the industry? Because all of that matters. All that matters. Question number five. This comes from Emily on Instagram. What about certifications like Bixie? Do apprenticeships help with those? So, great question. Let me take a sip of my roasted dandelion tea. Fantastic question. So it depends on the union hall. There are some union halls that all union halls have, I don't say all, that's because that's too inclusive. Most union halls have some formal training, like the JATC. Not every JATC program does low voltage. Oh sorry, limited energy because we're no longer low voltage, according to the new co-book. We're limited energy integrators now. So again, like the one in Vegas, like Matt Apfel, you know, the I can't remember the name but the name of the southern Nevada something, something, something. Sorry, Matt, my mind is just pulling a blank. I'm chasing squirrels right now. Um, but they have a great, fantastic JATC program. I talked to a guy at a Nega conference where um where they were building a JATC program. I got asked through my day job to actually help somebody, a union hall, come up with a plan or a way to get a to get certified to be a Bixie ATF. So, yes, there is that opportunity within the union, but don't assume every union hall has a JATC that does limited energy. So again, do your research. Go to the webpage, look them up, call them, right? Call them. Um I've heard, I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that some unions will even support the certification financially. So I can't say that for a fact, but I've I've heard that. The non-union companies, absolutely they're gonna encourage certifications, right? Uh well, you're your medium to large size companies. If you're if you're working for a small little company that's got literally like three employees, they may or may not care about your certification. They really care more about what you can do, how much quality can you do? That they really care about that. How much quantity can you do? The medium-sized, the large-size companies, they absolutely care about certifications because they're responding to bids that require a certain number of RCDDs on staff, a certain number of Bixie technicians on staff. So medium to large, yeah, absolutely. But either way, certifications, you know, for a non-U company, they're on you. They're on you. Nobody, nobody hands them out. Uh, if you happen to work for a company that pays for you to go to Tampa to take the class, fantastic. Fantastic. If you ever come to Tampa to take a class at Bixie, let me know. If I'm in the area, I'll come down and we'll share some roasted dandelion tea. All right. So let me know. So they're good, they're they're on you. Now, let's talk about more about something that people don't ask enough about, and that's the long game. The long game. Brandon from Reddit says, Do apprentices get stuck doing grunt work longer than direct hires? So the apprenticeship tasks rotate their task to build broad broad skills. Well, at least in theory. Um, but again, you'll know you can they give you that clearly defined path. So you'll know day one, you're gonna be learning theory. Uh let's say week one, not day one. Week one, you'll be doing theory. Week two, you might be doing cable pulling, week two, three, you might be doing terminate. So you and that's all given to you in advance, so you know where you're going. With with it with a direct hire to a non-union company. Again, not most of the time, there's not that path. Hey, if you work for a company that's non-union and you want to be better than all of your competition, pay attention. Create a program to hire apprentices and create a pathway for them to learn the skill sets. Bixie used to have an on-the-job task book that they used to give the apprentices, and you had to, after you got in class, you had to check them all off. I don't think you can get that anymore from them. But uh, so if you want to be better than everybody else, create one of those programs and then hire people. Young people, young people who haven't worked in the industry yet, because I would rather teach, I said this before, I think two weeks ago. Yeah, two weeks ago. I would rather teach somebody a new skill who has never done it before than try to battle somebody's bad habits, somebody who's taught wrong. Just saying. If you want to be better than everybody else, there's a tip for you. There's a tip for you. Question number seven. This comes from Nicole on LinkedIn. Which path is better for becoming a project manager or designer? Okay, so there are pathways that you can take to become a project manager or an estimator that don't involve any field work, right? You can do some classwork, some project management classes, you can get uh the RTPM, you get the PMP, you can go some still some certification routes that you can go through and get that. But I'm gonna tell you now, and listen up the best project manager is the person who came from the field, who understands the processes, the logical sequence of events, what when things can be done and when they can't be done. Apprenticeships, yeah, they build that, they build that strong technical foundation that's gonna pay off later. Absolutely. I know a lot of people high up in the IBW and NECA who started off as apprenticeships, you know, as apprentices in an apprenticeship program. So great way, great thing to do. Um, non-union paths, they may expose you to PM roles and estimating roles before the union. May, not necessarily 100%, but again, a lot on the non-union side, what typically seems to happen a lot is they promote from within and they give you the position and it's sink or swim. Right? Even though you've never been, you might be great with the customer, you might be great with running the cruise, and then they give you a job as a project manager, and then you fail miserably because the company failed to educate you. Just saying. Just saying. So basically, what it boils down to is career growth really depends more on curiosity than your entry point. Oh, I love that. I'll say that again so everybody hears that clearly. Career path, career growth really depends more on your curiosity than where you started. Where you started. I like that. I like that. Derek from Facebook, is it harder to get fired in a union apprenticeship? There are protections to working in the union, absolutely. But you know what? Bad TJ's in-house. Um, bad attitudes can still get removed. You know, as a as when I used to hire a lot of, again, used to work for a union company. When we bring union people on the job site, we had the if we didn't like somebody, we can send them back to the bench within 24 hours, and then we didn't have to pay for that person. So there you go. TJ says in-house, he says, I do like working for the union. You need to go back and watch the show from from the very beginning, Mr. TJ. That's what you get for showing up late. Just saying. So, um, yeah, there are some protections. It I I think, in my honest opinion, in a non-union company, it is easier to get fired as a um. It is easier to get fired as an apprentice. Okay, there you go. Alrighty, so let me see. What is the next question? Question number nine. I'm at 6 30 already. Holy cow. Uh, this comes from Ashley on TikTok. What about smaller towns where unions aren't strong? Okay, you're in smaller towns, yeah, you might find an area where a union may not be strong. You might, okay? Or they might even be non-existent. But you know what? The same thing's gonna be true with working for a non-union company. You can work in a small little remote town, and there might be one or two companies within a 30-mile radius of you that does low voltage. That's that's gonna be true for both. Now, direct hires, you know, it becomes a more practical path, I think, in the rural markets, because there's not sometimes get outside of the major market, like Chicago, Philly, Jersey. You get out of the big areas, you know, it's kind of harder to get to work for a union company. But union, I think, is really gonna for for worrying about getting fired, you're working for those protections. Yes, that that was so geographic, geography does matter. It absolutely matters. Okay, question number 10. This comes from Tom H. Which path is better for learning fiber and advanced skills? Okay, I told you about the JATC program. They typically, the ones that do have, the ones that do have low vol limited energy, sorry, limited energy, do they typically will cover fiber? Now, advanced exposure really depends on the the the types of projects that are being awarded in your area, what position you're being awarded in. Are you making are your supervisors notified notice noticing you? Are you doing such a good job that you're sticking out above and beyond everything else? You know, non-union shops. I think I think that's where they might have an advantage because they're not stuck to that contract. If they see somebody who's only been pulling cable for three or four years, and then they see somebody who is doing really well, they can promote them to come in to be a project manager. So that might be a benefit on the non-union side. But again, the union side is gonna just you're gonna build that foundation that's gonna help you a lot more with that position. A lot more that position. Wise components in the house. Hello, wise components. Pros and cons to both union and non-union. It falls on the owners to promote high standards. Ooh, dropped a microphone. That is good. That is good. Alrighty, and then uh last question, question number 11. This comes from Rachel on LinkedIn. Uh, is one path better for safety training? Hands down, union, hands down, union is way more, way more safety oriented than a lot of non-union companies. And uh, I was talking to a friend just a few days ago. We were sharing a launch at Bixie, and I'm not gonna say who he is or what company he works for, but he's a union guy, and he was pretty much saying that if you know if he wants a new hard hat, all he's gotta do is walk in and get one. And a non-union company, if you try to do that, the first thing they're gonna say is what happened to your heart hat? We can't keep buying you hard hats. So, union, I think, definitely outshines here. Oh, one of my woo-woo's came in, they want lovens. Um, the union side definitely way more conscious. In fact, NECA has a program for mental health awareness, uh, drug abuse and and marriage problems, and a bunch of other stuff. There's a lot of great stuff, a lot of great stuff that uh that the union does there. Outside of that, the non-union companies, it's gonna vary again by company culture. Again, if you hook up with a company like IES or Vision Technologies, yes, they're gonna care about safety. But a small little mom and pop where they got three three employees, probably not. But let's be honest, union or non-union, you will you will come across unsafe conditions. And when you do, walk away from them. You know, I I I hate that attitude that people say, well, you know, um, I know I'm not supposed to stand on top of the ladder, top wrong of the ladder, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Wrong. Your job is to get home safely to your family every night. That's your that's your big priority right there. If a company ever asks you to do something that is not safe, raise the red flag and tell them, look, just not interested. And if they fire you, you know what? Maybe that's not the right company culture for you. Right? Not the best company culture for you. So there you go. That's it. So tonight's show is 636. I ran five minutes over. I apologize to everybody. That's gonna do the outro, and until next time, remember knowledge is power.