Phil Klingensmith RCDD: The Mentor Who Built An Industry

We honor our friend and industry icon, Phil Klingensmith RCDD, by replaying a defining interview that shows his humility, mastery, and deep commitment to teaching. From open wire lines to dense fiber, Phil’s wisdom ties legacy systems to the future of intelligent infrastructure.

• why Phil’s work still shapes design, install, and certification
• Navy-to-AT&T journey and outside plant beginnings
• legacy gear awareness to prevent outages
• BICSI training, standards, and best practices
• tips for the BICSI hands-on exam
• the case for constant learning and mentorship
• where infrastructure is heading and why wires still matter
• building careers through community and shared knowledge

Please don't let Phil's example be a memory. Make it a blueprint. Pick one thing that you can do for this industry to make it better. Teach somebody something, volunteer, share your knowledge instead of guarding it closely.

Chapters

• 0:00 A Personal Tribute To Phil
• 2:46 Why Phil’s Work Still Matters
• 3:46 Introducing The Industry Icons Replay
• 5:47 Phil’s Path From Navy To AT&T
• 7:40 Early Cabling And Open Wire Lines
• 12:05 Training, BICSI, And Passing The Torch
• 15:20 Tips For The BICSI Hands‑On Exam
• 19:09 Legacy Gear: 66 Blocks To Wire‑Wrap
• 23:18 Where Infrastructure Is Heading Next
• 27:18 Careers, Constant Learning, And Community
• 31:35 Closing Reflections On Phil’s Legacy

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Every now and again, someone walks into your life and quietly rewrites the standard. Tonight I want to honor the main idea exactly just that. Welcome back to Let's Talk Cabling, and tonight's episode is a little bit different. For me, it's personal. And honestly, it's one of the hardest intros that I've ever had to record. This past weekend I learned that my great friend and industry icon, Phil Clingsmith, passed away. If you've been in this trade long enough, you've already been shaped by him, whether you realize it or not. Phil didn't just follow standards and best practices. Phil helped create them. His fingerprints are on every blueprint on how we design, install, certify, estimate, project manage a communications project. A couple years ago I launched a series on the podcast called Industry Icons. And Phil was the very first person that I interviewed. Not because he asked for it, and definitely not because he wanted attention. I chose Phil because he embodied everything that the series was supposed to represent. Humility, mastery, mentorship, and heart. Tonight's show is a tribute to his legacy and our friendship. I'm going to replay that interview entirely, exactly as it aired, commercial free. It captures Phil and his element. Thoughtful, sharp, funny, and full of wisdom that still holds up today. And before we roll that tape, I just want to say this. In an industry where we talk a lot about standards, the TIA, Pixie, the NSE, the best practice manuals. Phil was one of those people behind the scenes making those standards real. He was the guy doing the hard work that many of us never saw. The work that lets the rest of us build with confidence. Phil, my friend, thank you for everything that you gave this industry. And thank you for everything that you gave me. I will miss you. We will all miss you. This industry will miss you. Now here's the conversation from that industry icon series. May it remind you why he mattered so much. So if you are a member of this audience, you know that we started a series a while back called Industry Trendsetters, where we highlight new and upcoming professionals in this industry. But you can't get a good appreciation for where this industry is going until you know where we have been. So I'm starting another series called Industry Icons. And the first guest I got today, though we have never really physically met face to face or whatever, we have served on some of the same committees, and I've seen his name in a lot of Bixie books. Our guest today is Phil Clingsmith. Phil, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Doing well. How are you, sir? Good, good. Finally, good to get to talk to you. Uh, and like I said, I've seen your name in lots and lots of books, and we've even served on a couple committees together, but that back then, that was before I found my um I was I wasn't a chatty Kathy, I was the nervous guy who sat in the back of the room and I didn't say hi to anybody. I didn't you know go up and introduce myself to anything. I'm I've gotten past that stage, obviously. Um, so it's a pleasure to have on have you on the show. Um the thing, first thing I like to always ask every guest who's been on for the first time, is tell us a little bit about you and how you got in this industry.

SPEAKER_00: 4:03

Well, like a lot of people, it's probably an accident. Um, I uh I was in the Navy, I was an electronics technician in the Navy. And uh I was back in the era of uh of uh wooden ships and iron men. And that's what my son always tells me. But uh uh I came out of the service and and I went to work for a company called uh RCA. RCA was building things at that point in time for, believe it or not, a company called Western Electric. And I got to work on a store and forward machine way back when, before it was socially acceptable, and um then found out that um a little uh company called AT was uh was hiring, and uh I said this sounds pretty good. And so that's when it all started, and uh it was uh a ride that took about uh about 27 years with them. And uh it's just once you're in, you're not able to get out. It's just like uh it's just like quicksand, it's gonna it's gonna come right in and it's gonna keep you right there. So uh you you need to be you need to be aware of that. If you're a young person coming into the industry, you're probably gonna be uh with a always with a job. You're gonna always find a job. And you're probably going to be uh you're gonna be stuck with it. So enjoy it. That's what I've done.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

You know, it's funny, you brought up a couple points that I hear quite often, and it's uh it mirrors my as well. I got into communications because my ex-wife now, um, her father worked for ATT, and a friend of ours was working for a computer cable company, and I wanted to go work for ATT, but I wanted to have some experience first. So I went to work for a computer cabling company, and I just kind of fell into it. It wasn't like I was 10 years old and I was like, you know, when I grow up, I want to pull cable. Didn't it happen that way, but but you're right, and you the other the point that I definitely want to make sure that gets reiterated is if you want as close to as an in a recession-proof industry that you can find, because there is no such thing as a recession-proof industry, but as close as you can find is going to be our industry. When the economy's blowing and going, companies are moving into new buildings and bigger buildings and they're growing and building hyperscale data centers and all kinds of fun stuff. When we're in recessions, companies are downsizing, they're moving into smaller office spaces, and all that stuff needs to be cabled and wired, right? I've never been laid off in my 40 years in this industry. And and and one thing I gotta mention, it's rare when I come across somebody who has more years of experience than me. And I'm just I'm in I'm in all. I truly am. So I gotta ask you this question. Yeah, what is the first cable you installed?

SPEAKER_00: 7:01

Well, you know, I uh I I I hope you folks can see this. This is uh Can you hold up a little higher? Uh a little insulator. These are the things that kids used to shoot with the BB guns and everything, and uh that were uh carried the uh open wire lines. And um I was actually first hired to help dismantle an open wire line. Was uh it was from Cleveland to Charleston, West Virginia, and um the actual first cable that I worked on after that was a Pittsburgh St. Louis cable, and it was uh 1200 pair, and it was a pulp paper insulator, it was lead sheath, it was air core, and we and it it was it was aerial, so you can imagine we had it uh it was up on class five poles, so it needed to have something, it was about 10 pounds a foot, which would have weighed, I think. So that was the very first one.

SPEAKER_01: 8:11

So I've got lots of cabling experience, but my outside plant cabling experience is limited to pretty much just buried or direct buried cable between two buildings, customer-owned kind of stuff. Never, I never did any poll stuff. And and I let me know if this is true or not, because you're the you're the outside plant expert here, not me. I was told that the first form of a twisted pair was the old phone lines. They would swap them at the post and between each of the posts, and that's how you would get your twists.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Absolutely, you're absolutely right. And it was a uh it was basically um a random twist, of course, but it was uh it was in there for the same reason it's in there now to um eliminate the crosstalk and uh make sure you have an isolation, and and uh it uh they did exactly the same thing. So yeah, you're right. And we had to we had to maintain that twist when we uh when we opened these things up. So uh I don't know. I should I probably I probably shouldn't be around because I put so many lead sheaths on and many alleged places that I'm sure that it does been to. But uh most people have been in the industry as long as I have, uh those that are still living, most of those people will probably uh will probably remember some of these things.

SPEAKER_01: 9:32

Right. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So my first cable that I got to install was actually um uh for a system called NBI. Um now NBI back then was a company that was putting in work terminals and stuff like that. And everybody always used to ask, what does NBI stand for? Nobody knew, so they used to jug and say nothing but initials. So we were putting in like a 18-gauge two-pair twisted, or they were putting in um the the coax, the 10-base T, the old coax for the 10-base stuff, where you had to put the B and C connectors and you had to put the 50-oh uh terminator on the end of them and stuff. And uh, and um because I remember when I first got in this industry that there was basically two types of cable contractors, right? Either computer cable and contractors or telephony cable contractors, and most of the time Mob Bell is doing the telephony, and then when we first merged, you know, right after the Vestiture, I thought there was the worst thing in the world for our industry. But now when I look back at it, just everything is just merging together, together, together. I mean, it just it really is, you know. So let me ask you this. I know you I know you work, Hishi, but a lot of my uh audience members may not. What have you done to make this industry better? Remember, we only have about 20 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_00: 10:49

No, no, no, no, no. I I uh that's that's good. Uh you know, some of the some of the things that um well working for AT ⁇ T, I worked for ATT along lines for a number of years. And so uh we were we were America's traveling tramps. We did nothing but put in outside plants and then uh came inside and uh started working on on uh the inside uh the inside issues with cabling and uh actually one of the one of the best things that I did was probably to establish some different trainings. And I've kept that I've kept that with me for for the entire time. I kept it with me as uh uh even up to and including a master instruct instructor for Bixie and and um have my own company or had my own company for a number of years and and did training. But I think that uh one of the biggest and best things I did was to to join a little company called Bixie that was uh an association who I knew little or nothing about at that time, but it was basically formulated by uh uh ATT and Bell Canada and the University of Kentucky. And uh and I've had the I've had the opportunity to um establish a number of different how-tos, best industry practices. Uh do a lot of things with uh manuals and do a lot of things with training classes, and uh I've been real lucky because uh Bixie has kept me around for all this time. And um they still seem to, yeah, you know, I've got my still got my certified trainer, and I'm uh yeah, I'm still I'm still around. And uh I think that that was one of the best things that I could do for the industry because it helped give other people the information that I learned over the period of time that I've been in the industry. And if you don't impart it, it's going to be lost. Okay. And there's as as we always used to tell people, there's only one thing worse than training somebody and having them leave the company, and that's not training them and having them stay. You know, and that uh that makes uh that makes a big thing. Uh but uh that uh that was good and and uh I've enjoyed it and I hope to continue enjoying it for a little while longer. When was the last time you taught a bixie class? Oh, not uh wish let's see. The installation classes it's been about it's been about four years since I taught the installation classes. The design classes uh in the last year I've taught design classes.

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

I used to be a certified trainer as well when I used to work for a small little company out of northern Virginia called Hinkles McCoy. Um, and the certified trainer, um, when you leave that company, that certificate stays with the company, it doesn't stay with you. Um, you know, I did get asked, maybe you can help me. I got asked this question the other day on TikTok. And uh so somebody posted me a question, because since you've you taught more recently than I have, and they asked me, they said in their comment that they were getting ready to take the Bixie hands-on exam. Was there any hints or tips that I had for them to help them be a little more successful? Now, again, I haven't taught the class in like 20 years. And when I took my class, and since you you have more real relevant experience than I did, when I took, when I took, when I taught my classes, they would give you the hands-on portion, they would give you the sheets that had the lines on it that said step one, step two, step three, step four, step five. And if you followed the plans and you did it the way you did the book said to do it and you were taught how to do it, pay attention, make sure you label the jack when you get done, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 14:42

Make sure you wear your safety glasses before you start anything. That's a good okay. That's always a good one. And the the good hint, either this person has taken a class or they're aware of a class, they've probably gotten the manual that they're studying on so that they can take the written test. And if that's the case, all of those, all of those different tasks are laid out very well for them to understand. And of course, they need to be aware of them, and they need to, if somebody puts a a 110 block or 210 block up in front of them, they need to know what they are, uh, and they should know how to terminate them. Uh, they should know things like uh be able to identify the pairs in a in a 25-pair cable, be able to do these things that are normal tasks, but you're absolutely right. If you've gone through the class, all you have to do is follow the instructions. And and as long as you're aware of what these tasks are going to be, you should be able to prepare yourself for them pretty easily.

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

Yeah, when uh when I when I used to be the the certified trainer, we would we would do a class a quarter, we'd bring in people from different offices and stuff, and we'd teach them. And then we'd always put out there, hey, look, we're doing a bixie exam on Saturday, whatever the date was. So those who wanted to take the test who didn't sit in the class had the opportunity to do so. Um, because you don't have to sit in the class to take the test. And I always found that while they did good on the written stuff, when it came to the hands-on stuff because they weren't in the class, they weren't aware of the best practices that were taught in the class. And I failed more people who who tried to go through the hands-on portion that way than the people who actually sat in the class.

SPEAKER_00: 16:29

Yeah, that's that's and that's typical. That's typical. A lot of people go forward, you think uh, you know, you've been in the business for 15 years, you know, and some people I know everything about everything. Well, you've been in the business for 15 years, we used to say, and you were a coin collector. What did you learn about terminating fiber optics? Yep, you know, and and so you need to be aware of the first thing is awareness of what's the test going to be about. And there's nothing better than to take a Bixie class to find out what you need to be studying for. And believe me, they'll let you know, they'll impart all that information.

SPEAKER_01: 17:07

Yeah, absolutely. And and you and you being an instructor as well, you probably know there's different types of personalities you'll have in a class, right? And and one of those is the one you just named right off the I've been doing this for 15 years, I know everything. This guy is not gonna teach me nothing. That's usually the person who fails because they're not open for instruction.

SPEAKER_00: 17:28

They're not, they're not.

SPEAKER_01: 17:30

And and and my wife will tell you, this is one of her favorite sayings. Just because your grandfather did it that way doesn't mean it's the way you still do it.

SPEAKER_00: 17:38

Yeah, and there's a you know, and we're in an industry where where you've you've got kind of a you've got kind of a two-edged sword here, okay. You look at it, and we're in an industry where, yes, you need to know all the emerging technology, but you also need to know where'd it come from, what it used to be. You know, this is the only industry in the world that is totally backwards compatible from Hello Central up to uh up to the fanciest, the fanciest uh type of instrument you're using today to make a voice call in case you do make a voice call instead of text. We've reverted back, we've reverted back to the old days of of telegraph. Now we've got the one-way conversation, only we don't have to be learn code anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 18:32

That's you know Yeah, it's it's and you know I've never really thought about our industry that way, but you're absolutely correct. Everything is backwards compatible, and the standards are written that way, and the installation practices show that in the way that they're written as well. So you do have to have a good foundation of where we've been to know where we're going. You know, yeah, I've I remember once as a project manager, I had a guy working for me, and I took over a new job, a new project for another project manager. His wife, I think he had to leave because he took some leave because his wife was delivering a baby or something like that. So I took over the project and I was and I was had this guy on the job, and he really impressed me. You know, he seemed to know everything and it seemed to be really good. And so I sit down and have lunch with him one day, and I said, Well, how long do you been in the industry? And he goes, Um, three months. I was like, No, no, no, not the company. How long have you been in the industry? He goes, Three months. I was like, Wow, you you know a lot. He goes, Yeah, I'm a technician. I'm like, whoa, you're a good installer. There's a difference between an installer and a technician. And he goes, No, there's not. So I took him down to the data center, right? And I found a pair, I found an old twin X cable. And I picked up and said, What's this? He goes, I don't know. Went around, sound found some 10-base tweet cable. What's this? I I don't know. I said, What do you know how to do then? I can pull C5E cable, I can drop down the walls, I can terminate, and I can test it. You're an installer. Don't get me wrong, you're you're an oppressive installer for knowing a lot in the three months that you've been here, you're on the right path. You're in the right direction, you're not a technician yet. And that's again, that's where it comes. And you people say, Well, that check gets old technology. There's still companies out there using that old technology. Let me ask you this, Phil. When's the last time you've been in a closet and saw some 1A2 key phones equipment still sitting on the wall, still powered up? Because nobody knows what it is and they're afraid to touch it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:22

They're afraid to touch it and move it out of there. A lot of things. A lot of things you find like that, you know, and you wonder, you wonder what uh what in the world is this still doing here drawing electricity.

SPEAKER_01: 20:33

I got another perfect example for you, right? 66 blocks. Yes. They've been around since ever since I've been in this industry and even longer. And I got in this conversation with a with a peer of mine the other day, and they're like, no, we need to not even talk about 66 blocks anymore. That's old stuff. That's legacy. Oh I'm like, they're still installing it. And if you know, you need to teach the people so when they come across this block, when they're doing a demarcation extension or or uh sometimes some of the fire alarm systems use it, right? Would you still say a 66 block is common in our industry? Would is it would I still say it is common? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:12

There's still so many of them around, you've got to say it's common. It's common because it's a legacy equipment, as you say, that's been here for a long time. Is 110 still common? 110 is still common. Is you know, do you still have some do you still have some points out there where you've got where you've got basically even some wire wrapper and input? Absolutely. You're going to run into these things. You need to be exposed to them, at least from a standpoint so you can identify them. Right. And then next, from a standpoint that you don't blow something up or kill, you can kill somebody's services real easy. Uh, and this is one of the biggest errors we have today in our industry is people go out there and they don't understand what they're really looking at, and they take service down. Not a good thing. Not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01: 22:06

If you know what it is, then you can research and find out the best practices for it, or you can get on YouTube and check the 66 blocks and find the correct way to install. But if you don't know what it is, you don't know where you'd even start.

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

Oh, you're dead in the water. That's uh absolutely right. Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

And it's funny you mentioned wire wrap. I was I did a class, and uh they got a lot of wire wrap out there.

SPEAKER_00: 22:28

A lot of wire wrap, they do, they got a ton of it. They got a ton of it, and then they got a lot of they've got a lot of old screw terminals and everything that are still out in the field and a lot of the protection areas, and you sure don't want to take the protection off cable coming into buildings and things like that. So, yes, you need to be aware of all these things.

SPEAKER_01: 22:45

And you hit the nail on the head too when you said, you know, you gotta be aware of it so that you don't blow something up. Well, imagine if somebody who's doing some workout that didn't know what that wire wrap stuff was, disconnected something and there was a launch.

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:00

What what are what are the uh what's what's the things that can go wrong there? You know, the loss of command, control, who knows, you know, telemetry, who knows what?

SPEAKER_00: 23:09

So many repercussions that uh you can you can get them. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 23:13

Yeah, very, very cool. So I know that you've been in this industry for a while and you've seen a lot of stuff. Let me ask you this. Um, where do you see our industry going in the future?

SPEAKER_00: 23:21

That's uh it's it's moving so fast you don't know you don't know you don't know where it might be tomorrow. Uh I think the main thing is is is what we've the intelligence of the instruments themselves. Uh is uh, you know, any artificial intelligence that's out there, and of course the the wonders of the internet and and everything. Uh um ATT actually introduced that concept back in uh in the uh 70s, and they they called it an ACS was a sort of it was a a circuit offering they had, and it was uh it was part of the precursor to the internet because you know that the the internet today works on the same principles as the switch telephone network did. Look ahead routing and and things of that nature. So it what goes around comes around, but I see uh I see more and more the intelligence is is is moving more towards the user in a lot of cases with the things that they're using. But there are still uh there are still a lot of needs out there. Power was the big thing, that was a big driving force. Um there's a building, the first building that I worked in with AT ⁇ T uh in 1964. That's a long time ago, uh, was is is actually uh was actually out in Newark, Ohio, and it was a uh switching office, and it had two wire and four wire repeaters in there, and uh that was on the long distance service. And that building is still there, but it's got vines and stuff growing up all around it and everything. But that building was needed to be there because of the power that it took to operate that. Now you can get that same processing power in in a chip, and and you can operate it, you can operate it on a on a one and a half volt battery. Uh you know, so you look at you look at the difference, and what you're gonna see is everything is is coming down to smaller and smaller and smaller. I see that as the as one of the the things in the industry, but we're still going to have to, we're still going to have to focus on what's the legacy equipment, how can we use it with this? What do we want to, what do we want to have that's hardwired? Uh you're gonna have a lot of cases that are still gonna, it's never gonna be all wireless or else your your ears are gonna glow whenever you walk into a room, you know. It's it at some point in time, you're going to still have to come back to a wired circuit or a cable circuit somewhere, and and it's going to have to process some of that data that's in there. So I've seen the industry, I see us being I see us being very much specialist in the infrastructure as Bixie is. We we've got to pull tag terminate and test. We've got to do that. Uh, because nothing is going to operate unless we unless we make that happen. We've got to have a media that carries it out there somewhere. So we've we we need to have people like us that are well, we at least they once we're good at that, when they could when they could climb a pole and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

No, you're you're right. And and our industry covers a lot of territory. You know, that's why I when I I I find them when I explain my job to most people, if I say I'm a I'm in in the information communication technology industry or uh I'm a cable guy, they automatically think either, you know, I'm the guy from who's putting the the drop on the outside of their house for their cable TV, right? Which that is a part of our industry.

SPEAKER_00: 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

But our industry has many facets to it. I like, I like the the parable I like to use is we're like a bicycle, right? There's the hub, there's the spokes, there's the wheel, there's the frame, there's the brakes, and every one of them has a specific job. And there are no experts in this industry. That's why I I like I have people like you on my expert council, because now I have people when they give me outside plant questions, I know who to go to for them.

SPEAKER_00: 27:32

Okay, okay. I'll take that as a compliment.

SPEAKER_01: 27:36

Otherwise, I'll take it as you say it may be old. No, no, no, no, no, no. It was absolutely meant as a compliment. Absolutely meant as a compliment.

SPEAKER_00: 27:43

I'm just fine with you. I'm just fine.

SPEAKER_01: 27:45

You have probably forgotten more about outside plant than I even know about outside plant.

SPEAKER_00: 27:49

Boy, there's you know, there's other people that there are other people that are still around, believe it or not, that that I learned a lot of things off of because I came here from the outside world. You know, I came in from I came in where everything we had was was heavy, high paracout cable, and was up on on big poles or up on big towers when we were doing uh microwave radio and all this. And and I came into uh and I had to learn about the the the local the local uh types of of installations and and what we did in uh in the subdivisions and what we did in the cross-connect boxes and what we did because that's you know, we're replacing that I know with fiber in a lot of cases now, but you need to know what it does if you're going to just like like you said, and like my dad always used to tell me, it's very hard to get somewhere if you don't know where you're going. Yep, you know, but it's also very hard to get somewhere if you don't know where you are.

SPEAKER_01: 28:52

Right. Yeah, my dad always used to say, Don't drive your car by looking in the rearview mirror.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

There you go. There you go. Yeah, you have to do something like that. He was he was a state highway cop, so that was yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:06

My dad was a tow truck driver, so he knew a lot of cops.

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

So maybe that's why the commonality maybe so, maybe no, but that's uh I think uh you're you're gonna see you're gonna see some uh some real need to stay in an organization or in organizations like Bixie. I think Bixie is uh, you know, uh I I keep going back to that. Somebody says, why do you go back to Bixie? You know, you well, I've been a member for for over 30 years. And and and I go back to Bixie because I know I can get the answer there. I know I can get the answer that I need. I know I can if I don't have the answer, someone else will have it. It's a great association, it's a great thing to belong to, a great thing to be in and and work with. And you know, 34 years of undetected crime, I'm glad I'm glad I knew about it, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 29:53

I I agree 100%. I think uh I I think Bixie's an outstanding organization, especially to help for career paths, which kind of leads me to my next question, right? So if if you were just getting into this industry today, right, what advice would you give yourself to be successful?

SPEAKER_00: 30:11

One of the things that I would say is get as much information and training as you possibly can as you're moving through the chairs or through whatever you want to do. You're gonna have get get rid of you know get with a company that's got a career path, and then understand understand that it's never a waste to learn something new, and it's never a waste to find out how something old works. Okay and that's big information that I would give people. Emerging technology, emerging technology, of course, you got to stay up on that, but information is is the key to what you're going to be able to do successfully in this industry, and like you, in all these years, I've never I've never had a moment where I've drawn unemployment. There's always been a job out there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01: 31:13

Yeah, great advice. I I tell people all the time the best you can be in this industry is a constant learner. Because if you're a constant learner, as new margins technologies come out, it'll help you with it. When you we talked about you got to know where you came from. We talked about that earlier. Not every company out there adopts, you know, oh wait, there's cat 6A? Well, this is a scrap that Cat 5EK we just put in three three years ago. Not every company does that, some of them wait to spend their money, and so you're gonna you get a mixture of old technology, new technology, and you you have to have understanding, and the only way you can really deal with that is to be a constant learner. So any parting shots of wisdom as we before we sign off? No, you know, uh not really.

SPEAKER_00: 31:58

I've enjoyed it. It's uh it's fun to sit here and talk and talk to you about it. And uh I um I I appreciate uh I appreciate you what you're doing and uh on on your shows. And I I like to look at the you know, you're bringing out the pictures of some of the equipment I actually recognize. You had a you had a 3DM splicer the other day, though that was that was pretty cool. I haven't seen I hadn't seen one in a long time.

SPEAKER_01: 32:26

And that's exactly that's exactly the reason I did that, is because you were just talking, you know, I was just talking about it. Everybody's familiar with the fusion splicers and ribbon cable and stuff. Yeah, yeah. What if you gonna do something old like that?

SPEAKER_00: 32:36

But then you're gonna get you're gonna get just exactly what I get exposed to. And and in a way, in a way, it's frustrating at times because I don't know all the answers. But when I go from a I'm looking at a single fiber splice, a mechanical splice, the the 3M hot, and and it's not a you know, it's not a connector, it's a splice. I'm looking at that, and and I'm thinking to myself, hmm. And yesterday I was figuring out how to dress and fur, you know, furcate and dress 3,456 fiber cable. Um scary thought, you know? Absolutely so you you you're going from you're going from the very you're going from the very bottom up to the up to the very top of of the technology. Well, of course, they've got even bigger ones now, but the very getting to the top of the technology. So constant learner, do it, keep doing what you're doing. I uh I enjoy it, and uh I hope I didn't bore anybody too much.

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

I I doubt you did, because you know what, you didn't bore me, and I'm the one running the show here. So you will be on again, trust me. You will be on again, especially if I get outside plan questions. Okay, we'll do it. Phil, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00: 33:55

Uh you're more than welcome. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01: 33:59

As we wrap up tonight's episode, I want to take a moment to reflect on what we just heard. Listening back to Phil when he interviewed reminded me of something important. He never chased titles, and he had many of them. He never bragged about his accomplishments, and he had many of them. Yet the man helped write the standards that so many of us rely on every single day, every single project. He shaped this industry quietly, he shaped this industry steadily and with purpose. But here's the one thing about somebody like Phil his legacy isn't just in the documents, it's not in the committees, it's not in the meeting notes, and it's not in the certifications. His legacy is in people. Every technician that he took time to mentor, every designer that he challenged to think a little bit deeper, and every installer that he encouraged to do the right thing instead of doing the fast thing. So I don't want to leave you with one challenge tonight, and this is a real challenge. I really hope that you take me up on this. Please don't let Phil's example be a memory. Make it a blueprint. Pick one thing that you can do for this industry to make it better. Teach somebody something, volunteer, share your knowledge instead of guarding it closely. Improve your craft. Stand up quietly for when it's easier to stay quiet. Whatever it is, do it with intention. Phil showed us that you don't need a spotlight to move an entire profession forward. He did it without the spotlight. You just need to care enough to act to Phil's family, to his friends and his colleagues, and everybody he influenced. My heart is with you. And to Phil, thank you, my friend. You built more than systems. You built people. So take Phil's example, carry forward, and keep building something worth being proud of. Thank you for watching tonight. Knowledge is power.