When the Field Outruns the Standard: Extended Ethernet, Real Risks, and Practical Wins

We explore how field innovation keeps outrunning the standards, why extended copper links beyond 100 meters are gaining momentum, and what TIA’s new TSB could mean for testing, warranties, and contracts. We share practical steps for techs, PMs, and designers to push the edge without getting burned.

• standards lag and field innovation tension 
• permanent link versus channel clarified 
• certification vs qualification and warranty conflict 
• extended-distance solutions and GameChanger disruption 
• TIA TR-42.7 call for interest for TSB 5073 
• tester configuration for beyond-100m evaluations 
• documentation and manufacturer sign-off practices 
• PM risk, contracts, and stakeholder education 
• designer estimating, thermal and alien crosstalk margins 
• getting involved in committees and sharing empirical data

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Audience CTAs, Live Streams
• 2:09 Standards Lag vs Field Innovation
• 5:45 Gray Zones: Certification, Qualification, Warranties
• 10:18 Extended Distance Market & Game Changer Disruption
• 13:30 TIA’s Call for Interest: TSB 5073
• 17:55 Permanent Link vs Channel Explained
• 21:10 Tester Limits, Manufacturer Policies, Warranties
• 25:20 What Techs Must Do: Document and Configure
• 29:05 PM/Owner View: Risk, Contracts, Education
• 33:10 Designer/Estimator View: Modeling and Margins

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hey Ronalm Monkeys, welcome to another episode of Let's Talk Cabling. Today we're talking about how the field was yet again faster than the standard. Estimators, IT personnel, even customers. We are connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and that bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind leaving us a five-star rating? Those simple little steps help us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage, and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry. Wednesday night, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. What are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and everywhere else I can figure out aware to send the stream. Where you get to ask your favorite RCDD, and you know that's me. Don't even try to pretend like I'm not. Your favorite RCDD, questions on installation, design, certification, project management, estimation, even career path questions. But I can hear you now, but check on grabbing my trick on Wednesday nights at 3 p.m. I don't want to get into an accident. Relax. I record them and you can watch them at your convenience. And finally, while this show is free and will always remain free, if you find value in this content, would you mind clicking on that QR button right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even become a monthly contributor to this podcast. Just all and you can even buy Let's Talk Cabling t-shirts. How cool is that? So this show, once again, I'm talking about how the field once again leads the standards. You know, I tell everybody all the time, the standards always lags behind about three to five years on what we're actually doing in the field. And today's show, I'm gonna talk about another reason, another reason why you should be subscribing to Cable Installation and Mainness Magazine. So we're gonna talk about going beyond that 100 meters again, how the how the field moved faster than the specs. They moved faster than the standards. So first session, let's talk about the standards versus the field, how the the rabbit always wins. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard people say, Well, Chuck, I can get this cable to go past 100 meters, or I can use this type of cable or that type of cable. There's there's always been scenarios in the field where we've actually gone past that 100 meters or 328 feet that's detailed in the standards for the for the channel. Remember, the permalink is 90 meters or 295 feet, and they did that mostly because something forced it to happen. There was a camera and it was just a little bit too far, and it wasn't it was way too cost ineffective to build out a telecom room or put up a anema box or some other type of variant that's going on, and it worked, or it mostly worked. So, why does this happen so often? Because innovation is often on the edge, and people have to and people always have to find ways to push the limits to save costs, they have to push the limits to bridge that gap where there's a where there's where the standards fall short of what we're trying to do, or overcome site realities. How about that one for you? We want the camera put all the way over there. Oh, yeah, that's like 389 feet. That's not gonna work because I can't go past 100 meters or 328 feet. You know, when you look at specs, specifications, construction specifications for low voltage, when you look at standards, they are always consensus-driven, meaning there's a they when they create the standards, they there's a group that comes together. That group consists of installers, technicians, engineers, manufacturers, customers, IT personnel, anybody who's willing to spend time. And I just saw a I saw a post today from Henry Frank on Belden. He's he's uh the head of one of the TIA committees, putting out a call saying, hey, look, the the TIA standards have meetings are happening this week. Even if you don't, even if you are a member, please listen in, please participate, right? So they're consensus driven. So the group of people comes together and they decide what gets put in that standard. That's only the first step. Then once they decide what content goes into that standard, then they either have to write it or hire somebody to write it. Once that's written, then they all have to read through it, they have to edit it, they have to approve it, they all have to vote on it, come to a majority agreement. And then it goes out to all the ANZI members in the industry to be voted on. So the standards always runs behind what we're actually doing in the field. And the standards always builds in a safety buffer, right? Uh that's have that mentality. Yeah, it's going to be a little bit shorter because that way we know that this system will work 99 and 44 100s percent of the time. Hey, put in a comment box where that comes from. Show me how old you are. See, the standards always assume the worst case scenario, they always make sure that they leave margins so that way that cable plant works. I'll give you an example alien crosstalk testing. Alien crosstalk testing. Everybody tells you, well, you can't bundle those cables because of alien crosstalk. Do you realize in the standards when it talks about testing cables for products tested for by the manufacturers, that they have to do six around one testing, and most of them typically do it for the full 90 meters. So they tested six around one combed for the whole entire distance because they want to make sure that they're testing it. Worst case scenario, so that way when you're in the field and you're only dressing the closet, which only has 30 feet of dressing, then you know it's gonna be well within the limits. But what we've always done in the field is we've always pushed back, we always we always drag the standards to where we're con to where we're working right now. Because, you know, I've been in the industry for 43 years. 43 years. Yeah, do the math. Chuck is old. And when I first got in this industry, we weren't even installing category-rated cabling, we were installing coax, twin acts, uh, type one, type three, type nine. Every computer system had its own proprietary type of cable plant. And then the industry shifted to put everything over category-rated cabling so that way it doesn't matter whose system you're putting it in, it all uses the exact same cabling. So when we get back to again, the standards and what are the consequences of the standards always running behind? Well, we get these gray zones all the time. Like I said, if you test if you test a cable with a certifier and it gets to 328 feet, plus or minus 10%, it's gonna kick you a fail. But if you put a qualifier on that test, you might actually get a pass because the certifier measures the cable's electrical properties, and if it matches the standards, you're gonna get the big green check. A qualifier actually sends data across a cable, it doesn't care if that cable's 10 feet long or 700 feet long. If it can successfully pass that data back and forth without dropping any packets, that qualifier is gonna give you pass. But the hitch is most of the manufacturers are not going to give you a warranty for a pass qualification test. They want that certification test, which is going to give you that hard fail. So then the other part of this gray area is if you get you get a non-compliant cable plant because you're exceeding those distances, but yet it's functional, it works. Again, this creates a lot of arguments on the internet amongst amongst low voltage people. It just does. It's also gonna create warranty issues, and it's also gonna give you problems with disputes over responsibility. Because what happens is you know, typically you're gonna be in a contract with a customer, and that contract's gonna stipulate that the work will meet and or exceed the ANSI TIA standards. Well, I'm sorry, if you go over the the maximum channel length of 328 feet, you are no longer compliant with the standards, but yet it might actually still work.

SPEAKER_00: 9:07

Whether you're pulling your first cable or managing multi-million dollar installs, you're not alone. Welcome to Low Voltage Nation, the largest, most active community of low voltage pros in the game. With over 176,000 members on Facebook and growing, this is where ICT professionals connect, collaborate, and level up together. Got a question? You'll get answers from real techs with real experience. Facing a job site challenge? Someone here has solved it and will show you how. From fiber to access control, estimating to entrepreneurship, Low Voltage Nation is your power network. This isn't just another group, it's a movement. Join the community today at LowVoltagenation.com or jump into the conversation at our Facebook group. Because in this industry, the strongest signal comes from those who connect.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Now, all of the cable manufacturers have some form of extended ethernet distance cabling right now. But the key is got to make sure which one you're following, which one's going to give you a warranty, which standards do those extended distances Ethernet cables adhere to? Is it the TIA standards, or is it the IEEE standards, or is it the ISO standards? Because those are three different animals sometimes. But the industry has been pushing and pushing and pushing for the last five years to go beyond that hundred meters. You remember, I just did an episode not too long ago called Distributed Edge Architecture, where I've interviewed two guests, and one of them was a guy who did a kid a school, Richmond, Richmond Lumberjacks, go lumberjacks, yeah, uh, where they actually went beyond that hundred meters with a hybrid copper fiber solution. Real interesting, beautiful school, absolutely beautiful school. So think of it this way: the standards is a geographic, you go on a hike, and the standards is the map. The map is telling you where all the trails are, but the field is always exploring the terrain before the mat just catches up. Yeah, my wife and I, we like to go camping and hiking quite often. And a lot of times we have followed the trails at national parks, the trails at state parks, and because of you know wind and rain and and storms, sometimes you can't access some parts. Well, think of it that way. That's exactly the standards of the map, but yet in the field, we're always trying to find new ways to get beyond that. Now, with all that in mind, I came across a real interesting article in Cable Institution and Maintenance Magazine. I believe it was just last month, which would be September of 25. Maybe even the month before that. Sometimes I run behind. If you are not subscribing to and reading Cable Installation and Maintenance magazine, shame on you. It's a free resource to stay up with current code, standards, installation practices. And again, my favorite section is the in the back where all the tools and new parts are. They also do webinars every month. You should be watching these webinars. The webinars are registered for continuing education credits, but even if you don't need CECs, it's free training. Free training. Two words you don't hear very often. So they did an article on how the TIA standards is they realize that you know what? There's a lot of this extended distance stuff going on. Maybe, maybe we should revise the standards. So the TIA 42.7 committee, the engineering committee, issued out what's called a call for interest to help develop a new TSB technical service bulletin, TSB 5073. Now think of it this way: the call for interest is not an actual standard. And it's just a drawing say, hey, is this something that's going to be hanging around a while, or is this just a fad? Right? So they titled it the guidelines for supporting extended distances over four-pair cabling. Now don't get confused. TSBs are not the same things as a standard. Technical service bulletins are informative, not normative. That's what does that mean? Informative means it's some additional information to maybe help clarify something that might be somewhat confusing. Normative means it's part of the standards, and if you're following the standards, you have to do it. Or if you're contractually obligated to follow the standards, you have to do it. See, TSBs, they're normative, they're not informative. It's going to give recommendations or best practices, not necessarily hard requirements.

SPEAKER_00: 13:56

Let's take a short break. Are you trying to reach the technicians, project managers, and decision makers of the ICT industry? Then why aren't you advertising on Let's Talk Cabling? With over 150,000 impressions a month across podcasts, YouTube, and social media, this isn't just a show, it's the go-to resource for the low voltage industry. We spotlight the tools, training, and technology shaping the future of structured cabling, and your brand could be front and center. Don't just get noticed, get trusted. Email Chuck at advertising at letstalkcabling.com and let's connect your brand to the right audience today.

SPEAKER_01: 14:43

So, as I mentioned several times already, is the standards tell us that the maximum length for permanent link is 90 meters or 295 feet. That's going from the connector on the faceplate, which is called the telecommunications outlet, to the port on that patch mail. It's called permanent link because once it's installed, once it's tested, once it's turned over, theoretically, nobody's supposed to be pulling that faceplate off. In fact, if a customer does, quite often they will void their warranties. Only certified or people who are in the warranty programs, technicians, can pull that faceplate off without actually ruining that warranty. Then you also have that 100 meters. See, people always get the 90 and the 100 meters mixed up. The 90, 295 is the permanent link. The 100 meters or 328 feet, you're now including the passport in the telecom room and the pass cord at the telecommunications outlet. So because of those extra pass cords, we have to have a little bit of extra cable, a little bit of extra headroom in order for that to work. So it's allowed to have up to 100 meters or 328 feet. But as I mentioned, there's many companies out there, many connectivity manufacturers out there that already make products which, when installed correctly, they can go beyond that 100 meters and yet still pass the channel test. Probably the most well-known one is Game Changer Cable. Game Changer Cable was the first one to come to the market with an extended distance solution. People love them, people hate them. It just kind of depends on where you are in the industry. But I will say this Game Changer Cable was a disruptor, a disruptor, because it made us go outside that that nice, comfortable little box that we have. It says, look, hey, this can this can go extended distances. And that forced other manufacturers, well-known manufacturers, to come up with either solutions that they can go beyond 100 meters, or they take existing solutions, which already or engineered connectors and cable, which already have very good performance. They said, okay, well, how far can we actually go beyond that 100 meters and still guaranteed that's going to work? So almost everybody now has some form of extended distance applications. The key you got to ask yourself is do you want something that's already off the shelf and ready to plug and play that you work with every day, day in and day out? Or do you want to go with a unique system which has a larger conductor and specific conductors? I'm not going to tell you which one to use, but I'm telling you, they're both out there. And that but the game changer cable was the disruptor that caused all the other manufacturers to start thinking outside that box. Because everybody's going beyond that 100 meters. That's causing the standards to start thinking about this. Hey, we got to figure out a solution here because we have systems out there, we have manufacturers out there doing products that can go beyond that 100 meters. And most of the time it became a huge issue. First, try to certify that solution because the certifiers are written to the ANZ standards. And as soon as you go beyond that 295, that 328, it's going to kick you a fail. So first, this the testers had to address that situation. Okay, well, how when is that actually going to be a pass and going to be a fail? And then that also made the manufacturers also start thinking about the solution because they automatically would say your warranty is null and void for those drops to go beyond that 100 meters. So they had to start thinking outside of that box. Now, this is not a conversation that just started yesterday. I have been to Bixie conferences probably over the last three years, four years, maybe even five years, where they've been talking about copper beyond 100 meters. Copper beyond 100 meters. This is not new, but this TIA move is concrete. It's going to signal, it actually signals that the standards they acknowledge, guess what? There's people going beyond that 90 meters or 100 meters. So maybe, maybe we need to put in some verbiage in the standards so that way it doesn't become an issue with warranties. It doesn't become an issue with testing. It doesn't become an issue with specifications being issued out by customers because they also often will put out a specification that says the work has to meet and or exceed the ANZ standards. Well, now you're you're you're you're locked in to that 90 meters or 100 meters. So like you said, they put out that call for interest. That does not mean that the standards are gonna have some kind of verbiage in them within the next two months saying we can go beyond that 100 meters or 328 feet. Remember, I told you standards are notoriously slow. So first they'll kick, they'll write the TSC, the call, the TSB, the call for action, then they'll the standards committee will take that on the recommendation, then they gotta write it, and then it's gotta get published. So this is just a starting point. Just a starting point. And I promise you that I will keep a close eye on this and I'll let you know as this moves along through the standards adoption process. Now I believe that this TSB is long overdue, right? It's long overdue. But remember, TSBs don't have teeth, right? So the actual teeth will be in the standards. So the question is, is this going to be trusted? This TSB gonna be is it gonna be trusted? Is it gonna be written into the standards? And then on the flip side of that, is it going to be enforced?

SPEAKER_00: 20:10

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SPEAKER_01: 20:54

But when the standards write their stuff, again, they want to have that high mark. They want to make sure that that installation is gonna meet the standards. But what happens is after it does get adopted, they're still gonna, they're probably gonna be looking at the TSB, the people on that TSB committee are probably gonna be looking at real empirical data and testing to justify this deviation. So I guarantee you what they'll probably do is they'll probably reach out to Game Changer Cable, they'll probably reach out to, you know, um Belden, Leviton, Comscope, all those main manufacturers. I guarantee they'll reach out to them to look for justification to put this extended distances in the new standards. But I cannot say this without enough emphasis. If you go outside of the standards, just do this trial by doing, you may get burnt. You may exceed that warranty and you may end up with some liability. Because if the cable doesn't work, and again, in a contract that said the work will meet and or exceed the standards, you're stuck right now, currently, to that 100 meters. If a customer ever asks you to do a cable beyond that 100 meters, you better make sure that number one, you educate the customer, let them know that's beyond what's allowed in the standards. As we all know, standards are voluntary, so technically you don't have to follow standards. So it goes beyond the standards and make them aware of that, and then make sure you document that conversation. Okay, document that conversation. So, what does this mean for you, the technician in the field? What does this mean for you, the project manager? What does this mean for you, the estimator or the the designer for that project? So let's go back and let's let's translate this change into everyday decisions, everyday tensions and opportunities that you're going to get faced at no matter what role you play. Let's first talk about the installers or the field text. Okay. First thing you need to do, and again, if you if you you know I've got a pro tip list on my website, and pro tip number one is document, document, document. So you need to make sure that you document everything the measurements, the channel testing, maybe performance logs, right? Even if especially if you go beyond that 100 meters, because you're going to need proof. If you do that test with a qualifier and you went to that that you know 150 meters, 160 meters, 170 meters, you better hit it with not just the certifier for the warranty, but if you have the ability, I would also say hit it with a qualifier. All the test manufacturers, well, I'll say all, the majority of the test manufacturers all have some form of a qualifier out there. You also need to be choosier about your cable and your connectivity. Don't look, I have nothing against Amazon. They're great for buying dog food for your dog. It's great for buying, you know, camera gear for your podcast studio. But if I was risking my livelihood on it, buying cable, connectors, and passports to sell to an end user, you want to be a little more picky. I've done many shows on why you should buy from distribution, why you should buy from one of the main manufacturers. Yeah, because technically, yeah, if it all if it meets Cat 6A, it meets Cat 6A. But remember, when you buy from a single manufacturer who makes their own cable and their own connectivity products, that's what we call an engineered system. So it's going to actually perform better than the standard Cat 6A solution. It's going to have you more headroom. Again, how does this impact you as a technician? Well, if you forget that you're not supposed to untwist more than a half of an inch of the of the pairs when you're terminating it, well, you might actually still get a pass because you had that extra headroom to do it by. So be choosier about your connectivity products. Don't start mixing, matching stuff from different solutions. It's gonna cause you a problem. But if you know you got drop, but if you know if you got drops going beyond that 90 meters or 295 feet because the customer wants it and they've already signed off on it saying they understand that that those drops won't fall under the standards, before you still pull the cable, I would still reach out and call the manufacturer of your cable, the connectivity manufacturer, and ask them, hey, I've got a couple drops. They're gonna go at 130 meters. Will that still pass? Will you still warranty that? Again, documentation, documentation, documentation. And the next thing you need to know as a technician in the field who might be working with extended distance cabling and connectivity products, you better make sure how to set up your tester to go that extra disk. Because a lot of testers, if you set it in as the ANZ TIA standards, as soon as it hits that 328, it's gonna go and you're gonna fail. But a lot of the test manufacturers have rewritten their softwares, they've updated their software to put in special parameters for cables that go beyond that 100 meters. So it doesn't necessarily look at the length, it looks at the other electrical properties. So you need to make sure how to set your tester up, whether it's uh an AEN tester or a fluke tester or softing tester or um V Ave or any one of those other trend networks, any one of those testers. Make sure you know how to test beyond that 100 meters. If you don't know, call their support stuff. I I know all of, well, I see all of the engineers, I know the majority of the engineers for all those test companies. Matter of fact, I called one tonight because I was having an issue with a fiber tester. And he he picked up this phone and he walked me through that process. They're all great people, they're all knowledgeable people, they know their platforms. They'll be able to tell you, okay, if you want extended extended distances, go into this menu, make change this setting, change that setting. So that way you still get that past test results. Now let's talk about how this extended distance verbiage potentially in the standards is going to affect you as a project manager or or maybe as an owner of the company. Okay, you need to make sure that you're budging for uncertainty. Extended copper can reduce costs when you're looking at uh doing fiber instead of telecom enclosures or uh IDFs, independent distribution frames, which technically we don't use that term anymore. We call them telecom norms, but that also brings risk because number one, you got to explain to people who might be. I I mentioned the school district that I that uh the Richmond, uh the lumberjacks. Uh, when I was talking to that person about that job, he had to kind of almost educate some of the funding people because they're so used to seeing everything done a certain way, and he had to kind of explain to them look, this is gonna do better than the other way, and it's gonna cost less. You know, that old adage, some if it's sometimes if it's too good to be true, it is. So they tend to be really cautious when it comes to making those kinds of decisions. So, as a project manager or an owner, you better get all the information you need. Again, contact the manufacturer that you're going to be using, because I guarantee you they have documentation to help explain how their cables can go beyond that 100 meters, so that way you can present it to the customer in a language, in a manner at which they can understand. Not all owners are cable engineers. Sometimes you got to explain to them in eighth grade level English sometimes. This also is gonna rear its ugly head when you're ending to contracts or specs, because it's gonna need clauses. What happens if that performance dips? What would what if it what if the run what if this run falls? Who's gonna absorb the correction costs? Right? So you say, okay, I think that camera out there, it'll work. You know, it's 122 meters, uh, I think it'll work uh because you know, this manufacturer guarantees will go beyond that, and then all of a sudden it stops working. Because there are a lot of things that can affect how cable works and doesn't work. And I'll go into that in a different show on a different day. So what if it goes bad? What if it gets working? You know, is the customer gonna make you come back out and repool that cable with, I don't know, a hybrid fiber copper solution instead, which is going to be more money than an extended distances balanced twisted pair cable solution. Again, it all boils down to education. Education. The client's gonna ask you why the client's still gonna ask you why is fiber still preferred, and you need to be able to explain those trade-offs. You know, when fiber is gonna be okay for this, but the cost savings. If if you got a camera out there that's a hundred megabit, hundred megabit, you don't need a piece of fiber going to it. Okay, you just don't. Some people it just drives me crazy on on the internet, on low voltage forms. Just do fiber, just do fiber, just do fiber. No, fiber's not always the answer. It's not always the answer. So now let's look at it from an estimator's position, a designer's position, an engineer's position. You need to go back and then uh you need to go back and revisit those budget models. You You need to account for attenuation because extended distances, you're gonna have more. You need to think about crosstalk, you need to think about alien crosstalk over longer runs. Okay, so how's that going to really affect that particular drop you're doing that's going beyond that traditional 100 meters? Always try to be conservative in your planning, always, right? It's better to be on the safe side and have it work and be pleasantly surprised when it still works when it goes beyond your thing. Last beyond your 90 meters or your 100 meters. What you don't want to do is you don't want it to not work, and then have to explain to the customers, okay, well, the manufacturer said this would work. I'm not sure why it's not working. And then make sure that again, I already told you about Henry Frank, he's the leader of the TIA standards, they're being revised this week. Reach out to him and push on that, uh push on being push on being a participant in this. Get into those committees, respond to those TIA calls for input because they need people like you, people who've pulled the cable beyond that 100 meters, people who who are doing it day in and down. That you are the boots on the ground, whether it's the installer or the project manager or the designer. They want to talk to you when they write this new standard. It's going to help put clarity in that technical service bulletin. Now, the cool thing is, this is a the industry is a precipice. This could literally literally legitimize what many of us are already doing, going beyond that 100 meters. Or this, if they if if you don't get involved and you don't help put the verbiage in it, it could be a toothless document. It could be it could be a dog that's all bark and no bite because it's just a bunch of engineers, not people like you out there pulling and terminating and testing this cable and then hooking devices up to it to prove that it works. So you know, your participation could really make this TSB become a legitimate standard, a legitimate standard, and that's always going to be a great thing. Always gonna be a great thing. I wouldn't just stop there at the standards, I would also contact your favorite manufacturer, the you know, the company that you always buy the connectivity and the cabling from, and make sure that you push them on and make sure you get the test data from them. Maybe if you come across a scenario that either exceeds or nullifies what they've told you, make sure you share that with them as well. Now it might be something as a simple installation error that you might have done. It might be a simple testing error where you set the test up incorrectly, but on the off chance that you did find something, some nuance that they didn't know about, they're gonna want to know that. So I'm super excited for this technical service bulletin. And as I said earlier, I will keep an eye on it and keep you informed as it goes through this process. And if it gets made into a TSP, if it gets rolled into the standards, because if it gets rolled into the standards, it is now a legitimate system. So before I sign off, remember I told you, go subscribe to Cable Installation and Maintenance Magazine right now before you forget. I believe it's cablinginstall.com if I remember right. Lots of great articles all the time. Until next time, remember knowledge is power.