Copper Certification, Demystified with Softing

Tonight we bring back an fan favorite as I travel this week...

We unpack how to test copper the right way—permanent link, channel, and especially MPTL—and why choosing the correct limit and adapters is the difference between clean passes and costly callbacks. We also make the business case for certification, show how labeling workflows save hours, and explain how to fix wrong category tests without rolling a truck.

• standards‑aligned testing for permanent link and channel
• MPTL use cases and category‑specific adapters
• test planes and why field plugs must be measured
• certification vs qualification vs verification value
• cost, calibration, and long‑term warranties
• pricing and communicating deliverables to clients
• labeling schemes, CSV list‑based workflows, and consistency
• wrong category limits and software re‑certifying
• corporate test plans, training, and maintenance
• Cat 8 capability vs practical needs

Join the community today at LowVoltagenation.com or jump into the conversation at our Facebook group
Follow the journey on Instagram and Twitter at Uncle Bear underscore and at Security Today Podcast

Chapters

• 0:00 Framing The Certification Debate
• 0:36 Standards First: Permanent Link vs Channel
• 2:02 MPTL Explained And Why It’s Different
• 4:10 Adapters, Test Planes, And Common Mistakes
• 6:40 Why Standards Feel “Complicated”
• 8:23 Midroll: Low Voltage Nation Community
• 9:52 Certify Or Not To Certify
• 13:05 Value, Cost, And Future‑Proofing
• 16:10 Certification vs Qualification vs Verification
• 18:15 Tool Choices, Licenses, And Pricing
• 20:29 Labeling Schemes And Project Setup
• 23:20 List‑Based Labels And CSV Workflows
• 25:10 Midroll: Security Today Podcast
• 26:05 Wrong Category Limits And Re‑Certifying
• 29:20 Corporate Test Plans And Consistency
• 31:06 Cat 8 Capability And Practical Use
• 33:38 Final Takeaways On Doing It Right

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Hey, I'm Monkeys. Welcome to another episode of Let's Talk Cabling. This episode, we're talking five common issues of copper certification. Let me ask you a question. What is Softing's view? Let's say I've got a consolidation point. I've got a patch panel and the horizontal cross connect. It lands on a patch panel and a consolidation point. They're patching that to another patch panel and consolidation point, and that goes to the telecommunications outlet at the work area outlet. What is Softing's point of view for as far as testing it? Do you segment test it or do you test it through the consolidation point?

SPEAKER_05: 1:02

So we don't have to have an opinion on that because we just lean on the standard. So if the consolidation point is part of that link definition, which it is in permanent link, and it is in channel, you're going to test to that link definition. So essentially, you're not going to test a segment of that. You're going to test the entire channel or the entire permanent link. And if it meets the standards, it meets the standards. So I'm not dodging the my the answer here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39

You're not answering it at all. And that's what I said because I know I know that sometimes I know what the standards say, but I do know that sometimes testing manufacturers and sometimes manufacturers will acquire a step above what the standards require. And that's kind of where I was heading with that. So what you're saying is if you test it by the standards, then softhing is good without test.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00

Yeah, you're saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:01

Yeah. So let's I guess the last part of this of this little segment here would be the third limit, which is now really popular, which is the MPTL limit, also called direct attach. Okay. So you got again channel is the is or permanent link. Let's start with permanent link. That's the that's the classic and as we said, preferred right now, I guess to channel, right? Um so there's those two. And then the third, which is the new wrinkle, and it's probably the hottest topic right now in structured cable copper testing that's out there right now, is MPTL or direct attach. Okay. So instead of going to like a typical work outlet, which would be to a PC or um uh a phone or some other device, typically at knee level, right or so in the wall. MPTL is designed to go to specifically in the ceiling applications. And what's in the ceiling? Wireless access points and cameras. Okay. Also PoE lighting, but the majority of it right now is wireless access.

SPEAKER_04: 3:11

You also got building automation, industrial sensors, all of those are MPTLs. So it's not, it's not just the typical WAP. And that's that's one that's one thing. That's one of the fights that I fight all the time. Is yes, a wireless access point done that way is an MPTL. But there are other types of MPTLs.

SPEAKER_05: 3:28

Fair enough. Fair enough. When you choose that limit, that third limit, channel, permanent link, MPTL. That requires slightly different testing. So there's a different limit that you choose in the tester. Again, on the tester screen, it's not going to say channel, it's not going to say permanent link, it's going to say MPTL. You need to choose that. There's some specific test scenarios around that. In other words, you need to choose the correct testing hardware. There's a uh typically a patch cord adapter at the direct attach side, and on the other side, it's going to be a permanent link adapter. So identify your test limit, your uh your your sorry, your link definition, set up your tester accordingly, and then make sure that it says that on the screen because that's what's going to be on the report, and that's what's important.

SPEAKER_04: 4:16

And if it's in the contract, you better have it right because you ain't getting paid if it's not if it's in the contract. If it's in the contract that you're going to do a MPTL test, and and and here's what happened because a lot of people don't know the MPTL stuff where you put a permanent link adapter on one side and a patch code adapter on the other side. And the patch core adapter has to match the category rating of the cable too.

SPEAKER_05: 4:37

It's category-specific. Unlike the other tests, channel permanent link, they're category specific, but the connecting hardware is not category specific. They're basically backwards compatible. So I get a 6A permanent link or a 6A channel, and I can just change in the tester to category six or even category 5e.

SPEAKER_03: 4:55

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 4:55

But direct attach is specific connecting hardware for that category. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 5:01

So just make sure that that I that I understand this. I mean, I I think I already do, but so if I've got a category 6A cable going to a wireless access point, that's got to be a category 6A patch cord. That's correct. I got an industrial sensor that's running over Cat 5e. That has to be a Cat 5E patch cord adapter because that 6A patch cord adapter is not backwards compatible. That's correct. That's what I want to make sure I understood. Because it's funny, I just had somebody ask me that question today, and I was teaching a class today, and they asked me that question. That's exactly what I told them. It's like I didn't, I couldn't say 100% percent 100% positive that that was the case, but I was pretty sure that the the patch core adapters were not backwards compatible, where the testers are backwards compatible.

SPEAKER_05: 5:43

That's correct.

SPEAKER_04: 5:44

That's correct. But but anyway, to back to my point, I'm chasing rabbits again. So when MBTLs first came out, technicians, one thing I will say about technicians, they they think outside the box, they will find ways to do stuff and get stuff done.

SPEAKER_05: 5:58

So will project managers. So will yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 6:03

So sometimes they hit it out of the park, and other times you know it's a it's a uh uh it's a uh a failed bunt and you they get run down on further face.

SPEAKER_05: 6:12

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 6:13

So what happens is when somebody hasn't been trained to how to test an NPTL, they're gonna go grab a channel adapter and throw it on the end. And the reason you're using a patch cord adapter is because where that measurement actually starts. So the permanent link adapter, the measurement starts in front of that mod end connector. The patchboard adapter, not patchboard adapter, but the channel adapter, the measurement starts after the mod end connector. So the thing that you crimped on, the thing that's most likely messed up, if you use a a channel adapter, you're not measuring the thing that's most likely messed up.

SPEAKER_05: 6:53

What you're getting at there is the test plane, when those measurements start happening in that cable measurement. And yes, there's different test planes for these things. And I'll I'll just say this, you know, like when we when we relay this information to technician, project managers, various people, they're always like, oh, this is so complicated. And uh, why can't you just make all these things test the same way and stuff like that? And it's not it's not the it's not the sort of the you know, the many, like it's not us, it's not the other cable tester manufacturers. We're not in like a group trying to make things difficult for people. It is it is a reality of the standards. If in other words, if you want these standards to be accurately measured and also essentially easy to uh easy to to measure for category six, six A, five E, and stuff like that, that's just the reality of what it takes to be able to get these accurate measurements together.

SPEAKER_04: 7:55

It is you know, so over the last 13 years, I've probably taught 22, 24,000 people just just going by my numbers, you know, you know, three classes a week, every other week, 13 years, my average class filled you know, student size. You know, I can easily I can easily say, yeah, my number's probably higher, but I know what my average rate is on a class for as far as filling it.

SPEAKER_05: 8:23

And I I can hear that more often than I like to hear because technicians feel that the standards and the best practices are written by a bunch of people who are just because they got nothing else better to do, so they gotta come up with a new process to justify their being and that's that that's not the I I agree, and you may have just segued into our next our next uh our next choice here, our next item on the list.

SPEAKER_00: 8:50

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SPEAKER_04: 9:54

So uh you know, there are certain topics that if I want to get traction on a social media post, there are certain topics that I uh know if I put it out there, it's it's just gonna generate traffic. It just will, like union versus non-union always guaranteed to generate traffic.

SPEAKER_05: 10:11

I can think of a few others, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 10:12

Tire apps yeah, yeah. Tire wraps versus velcro. There's another one, right? There's there's a few of them, you know, snips or scissors. There's there's another one. Good one, right? But one that that that I just don't understand. I the other the other issue is I understand both people's points of view. I do because I've I've but I've been in union, I've been non-union, and I've heard people call snips and scissors, whatever. I understand the difference between velcro and and and tie raps and how you can technically use both according to the standard. A lot of people don't realize that, but you know, yeah, it is what it is. But one of the ones I don't understand is, and you see this in a lot of the social media communities, to certify or not to certify. Yeah. My my point of view is, and then I'll let you tell me what what how soft thing or how Tom feels about this. I feel that if you have the ability, now again, there's sometimes you don't always have access to a certifier, so I get that. But if you have the ability, you should certify every cable that you install. It's like a birth record. Now, whether or not you sell that certification record to the customer is a different discussion. Because what in my mind, what that does, and I've had enough customers that have said that done this to me, well, they'll come back and say, Well, you know, that cable's still not working, and it hasn't worked since the since the you know the the the day that you've installed it. Well, if I tested it with a with a qualifier, not I can't even say a qualifier, but if I test it with a verifier, I don't really have a physical document that says, look, here's the electrical properties of the cable on this day, this time, and it's been calibrated and all that other stuff. So I I feel that if you have the ability, you should certify every cable because it's a birth record. What what's your what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_05: 11:54

Um yeah, I I agree with what you're saying. Um I think that there's more complexity to it uh there. And and so I also don't want to sound like I'm insensitive to people basically arguing a value proposition to certification testing. You know, a lot of so the arguments that you're talking about are saying, oh, this is overpriced, it's too expensive, it's too time consuming for all this kind of stuff. And I mean, it takes more time to certify cables, it costs more money to own a certification tester, okay? Um, these are devices that you have to have calibrated yearly, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03: 12:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 12:33

Um, but let's go, let's go back. Why would you why would somebody let's put put yourself in the shoes of um this a stakeholder in that network? Okay, somebody who's gonna work at that office for in the IT, or let's just say that they're gonna do anything at that office involving technology, which is anything nowadays. You're everybody's a beneficiary of our technology that we're testing. Right. Um, but you know, what what is what is what is the uh payoff for them having certified cable? Um when you certify cable, you're testing that cable to an extremely high degree of performance, especially when you compare that to a simple wire mapper, right? So if the argument that you're saying is I don't want to certify, I think I should just wire map. I don't believe in that. That's that's not, and again, I was talking about a wire mapper earlier on this same podcast, right?

SPEAKER_04: 13:33

So But you're talking about as a two one step of a two-process process process.

SPEAKER_05: 13:36

That's right, one step of a two-step process. But to say that I would you're just gonna wire map in place of certification testing? No. What a certification tester does is it tests that cable's capability of its data carrying and PoE carrying capabilities, not just for that instance, but to a standard that's high enough to say that that cable manufacturers have confidence in it for decades, decades of use. That's a pretty strong reality that is in cabling. Okay. You're not just you're not just making, I mean, you're not wiring up your own home network for for, you know, um just and and you're also passing off this information. You're building this this structured cabling system in a repeatable, um, professional manner that other professionals or other users can walk into, easily identify and understand its performance levels. There's a ton of value in that. Um, your office could pack up and move to another place, and another tenant could come in, take over that cabling, and use it for years with certification cable.

SPEAKER_04: 14:53

I was gonna add two points, and that was kind of the tail end of the second point there. So, you know, one of the reasons I I'd want to certify it is you know, and what I hear quite often is well, the customer doesn't want that, the customer doesn't want to pay for that. Okay, so then you don't sell them the certification test results. It's insurance for you then at that point. But then you got to ask yourself, is that really the kind of customer that I'm gonna do?

SPEAKER_05: 15:15

Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean that as so we've got a couple different in this space, you know, as contractors, as technology providers, things like that, we've got a couple different burdens. Um, you know, you we need to do the jobs right, we need to be able to um, we need to be able to um execute properly. It's also important for us to be able to relay the value of what we're doing to the people who are buying this. So, like if you're quoting a certification job and that looks identical to a job where you're just doing wirmap testing, then shame on you. It needs to say specifically, and you need to you need to have a like your guarantee for this work. In other words, you've put more effort into this, you're gonna charge more, but there's gonna be a heck of a lot more detail to this, confidence in what you're doing, and expectation of success because of the level of testing that's gone on as opposed to just a simple wire mount.

SPEAKER_04: 16:14

Most of the people who who are in those communities talk about they can I I think I think their real goal is to be the best or a premium contractor. And to be a premium contractor, you have to use premium tools and have premium business practices and premium processes within the company, and that will attract premium customers. You know, and and you know, there's also the flip side of that that you know, like you you you kind of already hit on it. Um I but I've always heard it talk as heard it addressed as educating the customer. A customer may not sit may say, I don't want that because they just they think it's cost, but it gives them the insurance because like you said, you don't people don't realize cable, even though they say the average lifespan's seven to ten years, you know, there's some cable out there that's 30, 40, 50 years old because it's been used for you know it's only been used for an analog phone.

SPEAKER_05: 17:09

You're going, you're going down the look. When you say that cabling is good for 20 years, which is which is the reality for certified cable, manufacturers will guarantee it for 20 years. What think about think about what has happened in 20 years in the technology that we're dealing with. Wow, there's so much out there. Exactly you have the advent of PoE, you have you have bandwidth that has gone, we went from 10 meg to 10 gig, even beyond that with some of the cabling, right?

SPEAKER_04: 17:39

Yeah, managed power systems.

SPEAKER_05: 17:41

You don't know what's gonna be put on that cable. That's my point. And that's that because that is all the more reason for certification testing, um, because you don't know what's gonna happen, neither does anybody else. Uh, and certification testing shows some defined values there to the cabling being performed, in which the future is guaranteed to go one direction, and that is up, up, up, right?

SPEAKER_04: 18:09

Yes, and it leaves we uh I say all the time our industry changes at the speed of light, and it's it's true. I mean it's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_05: 18:18

Now, so so if the argument you went back to kind of these these kind of argument makers in our space, if their argument is certification testing versus wire map testing, I just gave you my my two cents there. I think that that's not an argument, okay? Um if but if you're if you're if you have a middle proposition for like for let's say qualification testing, um and also clearly defining what it is and what it isn't for your for your customer, then I think that there could be space for that. And there is space for it, and it may it does make sense in many scenarios.

SPEAKER_04: 19:00

But I think as a business owner or somebody starting a contractor, a low voltage contractor, they should have at minimum a five-year plan, a 10-year plan. And if in those plans is they want to become uh an acme certified cable installer, you better find out what's the parameters by acme manufacturing company to find out what they want tested by. Because if you go out and spend, well, even though a qualifier is cheaper than a certifier, it's still not cheap. I mean, if I was to buy a qualifier, it would take a chunk of change out of my checkbook. That's right. So, so if I'm if I know that that's part of my five-year plan, I'm not gonna want to buy two testers in a five-year plan. I'm just gonna say, okay, I'll I'll get the the uh the softing cable master 210, which by the way, it's not on Amazon. I already looked. Um, it's not on Amazon.

SPEAKER_05: 19:54

We don't try not to do the Amazon thing.

SPEAKER_04: 19:57

Um I get that. I get that. So I'll have to reach out to one of my distributors to get it. But I'm not not totally forgotten where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_05: 20:04

So I was chasing that rabbit and I got well the 210 would be our verifier, right? Right qualifier that we have would be our NetExpert XG2. Okay, and there's some special things about that.

SPEAKER_04: 20:16

So that that's that what's that run?

SPEAKER_05: 20:19

So that tool, a single unit license for just one gig, would be around three thousand dollars, roughly MSRP.

SPEAKER_04: 20:28

Okay, and then and your certified probably gonna be what 10 grand, nine grand?

SPEAKER_05: 20:32

Um definitely less than 10 grand for copper only. We sell 500 megahertz license limited certifier for around$7,000 a certifier, right?

SPEAKER_04: 20:44

So that kind of that's kind of that kind of that kind of feeds the point I was just making, right? If if I'm if I'm uh an entrepreneur and I've got my low voltage business and I have slated as my five-year plan that I want to become an acme manufacturer certified installer, and acme requires a certifier. It may cost me a little bit more money now, but I'm gonna get it now. And uh, and that makes that because some customers when they see that you're doing pre again, premium products, premium services, they will pay extra for that. And there are customers out there that will.

SPEAKER_05: 21:17

And you know, as a as a technician also or as a provider, there's there's there's trade-offs between the tools, too. So a certification tester, let's take our our I guess budget-minded certification tester, which is our wire expert 500, comes in at about$7,000. It just does copper certification. That's all it does, right? But that's a big deal. That is a premium that you can be charging for, right? When you go over to our qualifier, which does the BERT testing, right? Bit error rate testing, it does this BERT testing, one gig. You can license it up even all the way up to 10 gig. But it also does PoE testing, it does active network testing, it has reporting capabilities in there. So there's a ton of other value built into that tester to perform other functions. Um and it really provides it provides users of this test equipment, contractors, whoever they may be, with options about how they want to go about their business, right? Um and certification test is a great way to do it. We're talking about it today. You you should definitely clearly enunciate what it is for them, for your users, so they understand the value in certification testing. But you could also do BERT testing, qualification testing, and use that solution to be able to provide basically a different type of test report. Those test reports are easy to understand, that kind of thing, and there's perhaps a different amount that you charge for that service based upon that tool.

SPEAKER_04: 22:49

You know, another thing that we can run into is you get into the whole administration standard and labeling and stuff. And I always say the customers fall in one of about five categories when it comes to labeling. Either they don't care what it's labeled, or they want it labeled by label sequentially, drop one, drop two, drop three, or or by room numbers. I've never understood the whole room number thing. Or they follow, or they come up with some weird labeling scheme themselves. Right. So what is the impact if somebody uses the wrong labeling scheme in their uh it depends on what certifier you have.

SPEAKER_05: 23:21

I mean, let's say the we've already talked about this as a I guess ramification of doing it wrong. You could, depending on the certifier that you're using, have to go back to job site. And nobody wants that. Nobody wants to do the testing over. That could be like the limitation of your certifier, okay. Um, but it also could be because you are because your labeling scheme is so far off, you're not able to make heads or tails of what the labels actually should be. And so you may have to go back to the job site just to make sense of it to make it correct. Okay. So either of those things, the two things are probably worst-case scenario that I can think of. Maybe you can think of another, but but but that's what I'm saying. So um for you know, what we suggest here is again it in the tool, identifying having having first off, you need to have a plan before you ever go to the job. Okay, you've talked about it many times on your podcast. There's others who talk about it. It's important. Understanding what you're gonna do on a project and having a thought process and a I don't say labeling scheme, okay, prior to showing up is important. Project managers can help kind of identify this. And depending upon the capability of your tool, your certification tool, that tool can help you realize the scheme to minimize and optimize your test time and your project time and all that kind of stuff. So let me show you uh what we're talking about with our tool, right? So again, I'm gonna pull up our wire expert tester here. This is our wire expert tester. You can see in the project settings, okay. I can simply click into the project settings, and you can see I've got a job site. You can see the last show that I was at. Okay, there's a project for me. This is my tester that I get to drag around everywhere. Um, I can just go into the site, and you can see there's all kinds of sites, and I can just click on an individual site. So let's go to this, let's go to this one. Let's not give anybody and you can see that within that site there is a label. You can see that panel F port 36. I've also got multiple label sources I can choose. So within the softing tester, we have five different labeling schemes that can be chosen. Some of those are what you mentioned earlier, the TIA 606 labeling scheme. So you can actually choose that and work within that um template. You can uh work with none, which I don't recommend. Well, maybe I mean, I don't want to say that none is never a choice. You may just have like a one-off test, or you may have forgotten a drop, or you need to go in to do like one or two more. Then none is totally realistic in there because there's no setup time for none. You just go in and do the test and you redo it. You can use freeform, which is like from point to point. There's also list-based testing. So that option is really interesting. You can actually build out the labels in Excel or in the reporting software prior to going to the job site and load it on the tester prior to going to job site. Like if you're a project manager, I'm gonna say this clearly, right, for everybody to understand. If you're a project manager who gets irritated because the dots are in the not are not in the right place, or there's dashes where there shouldn't be dashes, or there's lowercase letters, list-based testing can solve that for you. Because you're gonna build out those labels. Every every character, you're building them out and loading them on the tester. The technician, all they have to do is choose the right one, they don't have to write anything in. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 27:27

Are you guys partnering with Brother? So where you can where they they can the the the printing of the labels can be coordinated with the test results?

SPEAKER_05: 27:37

Yeah, we are. Um so so our testers use um, we're not proprietary on the the labeling schemes and stuff like that. We use simple CSV, comma separated values, and without getting nerdy on what's going on, it's basically a generic way of passing information from device to device. And so does brother use that as well. And kudos to them for doing that. Um, so I don't say we're partnering with it. We just we basically allow them, we take the same information that they do. So I can take a simple Excel file, they can load it in their uh physical labeler. We can take that same Excel file, load it into our reporting software, and eventually into our testers and go to site and be on the same page. So it's that simple. The the last labeling scheme that we have is simple cable label, which kind of uses like a predictive text. So I can just show that real quick. Here's simple cable label. I can go in and choose something, let's just choose something a little more complicated here. So rather than A1. So let's go in and say Chuck's uh Chuck's TR. Let's go back. And I'm I know I know I'm uh already upsetting all of the project managers out there because I'm not uppercase, so let's make that correction real quick. Chuck's TR. And um I'm gonna say space port check. So now it says Chuck's TR port one, okay? And I don't have to write in the word Chuck's the works T the word uh or the letters TR or the word port ever again. It will automatically go to that number one and then increment to number two, number three, number four, and I'm done with that, right? Um, you can see that it's got the next label there, right? When I do the test, it'll put that information in. And because I don't have autosaves on my tester, I can actually edit that on the fly. So let's say that for some reason port number five is not used. Okay, if if it says port five. Is up next, I can just overwrite that, go on to Nick number six, and the tester will automatically increment to number seven for me. So it basically knows what's going on there. Super handy and a huge time saver.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

Hey everyone, we're taking a quick break to talk about an essential resource for anyone interested in the vast world of physical security. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out, you'll want to tune into Security Today. Hosted by Bear, this podcast dives deep into everything security related, from insightful articles and thought-provoking philosophies to the latest trending topics in the industry. Every episode of Security Today is packed with information that's crucial for staying informed and ahead in the field. Join Bear as he explores complex topics with ease, making even the most intricate security concepts accessible to everyone. Follow the journey on Instagram and Twitter at Uncle Bear underscore and at Security Today Podcast. Now let's dive back into our episode.

SPEAKER_04: 31:10

Very cool. So let's um talk about wrong category limits. Yeah, that down in the in the show notes for us to talk about.

SPEAKER_05: 31:16

Yeah, so um kind of the same thing here. Um category six versus five E versus six A, right?

SPEAKER_04: 31:26

Um The technicians always put in the right, they always select the right kind of cable, so I don't understand the problem.

SPEAKER_05: 31:31

Uh again, there's multiple layers to this problem. You know, you may be uh look, the the problem here, the the mistake, I should say, the mistake can be one that is um an honest mistake. It can be one that is, let's say, uh um less than honest mistake. Someone could could, you know, in other words, I have a project that calls for 6A and um uh I'm having trouble with things passing. Well, I just drop that tester down to category six, and all of a sudden I've got so many passes, it's an easy job, right? Okay, so that has had that happens.

SPEAKER_04: 32:12

And that's why customers should really look at the test results. I mean, evaluate the test results.

SPEAKER_05: 32:17

Yes. There's multiple things going on here. Um, it it could be a mistake by the technicians, it could be uh it could be a misunderstanding. The project manager could have made the mistake and told them the wrong thing to do. There's so many ways that things go on. Regardless of what's happening, let me say this having a view of the category that you're testing with both technicians provides accountability and two brains thinking about this issue.

SPEAKER_04: 32:49

Two sets of eyes, that's right.

SPEAKER_05: 32:51

Do the math four eyes, two brains, four hands.

SPEAKER_04: 32:54

The guy in the guy in the telecom room might not have had his his triple latte frappuccino grande with a red bullet shot yet.

SPEAKER_05: 33:05

That's right. Yeah, absolutely. It happened. It happened. So when this happens, and this this is not this is this is a common one, right? Um I'm gonna say this avoiding the problem before it ever happens is really the best. And that you can say that about several things we talked about today. Avoiding the problem before you or the mistake before it happens is really the best plan of action. And you should choose a workflow, a project plan, and a test tool that helps you do that in any scenario that you can imagine, right? That is really the optimal way, right? Um, if you do that make that mistake, let's say that you've done everything right, you followed the instructions given to you by the project manager. Let's say the project manager was given instructions and he did what he was told. Um, and you go and you you test the cable and you get back to the to the to the office. A week later, somebody calls and says, Oh, this is supposed to be a category 6A job site, not a category six job site. Um, one of the things that we have on our tester is in the reporting software, you can actually re-certify that test result. So think about this.

SPEAKER_04: 34:23

No additional travel back to the job site.

SPEAKER_05: 34:26

No additional travel. So retest? Our tester tests a 500 megahertz sweep every single time, regardless of whether it's testing category 5e, 6, and 6a. Remember, 5e is only 100 megahertz. 6 is 250 megahertz, 6A is 500 megahertz. We take a 500 megahertz sweep of that cable every single time. And so even though the test was completed weeks ago, you can simply pull up that test result, choose to recertify to the new uh the new uh category, and it will reapply that limit. Now it's not guaranteeing a pass or a fail, okay?

SPEAKER_04: 35:08

It's taking the existing performance evaluating the data valuing data against the standard.

SPEAKER_05: 35:13

That's right. And that's a huge help. But that is a that's a very common issue that we hear, and we uh when you know, when when when our users call us with that, sometimes we have the benefit of being able to look, we got a simple solution for you. Try this, and they're very happy. Um, sometimes they're not aware that they um can do it, and they don't call us, and you know, they go back and retest anyway, and then we have to give them the essentially the bad news there that they missed out on that opportunity. But understanding what's going on and avoiding that problem from the from the from the onset is really the best way to deal with that issue.

SPEAKER_04: 35:56

I can tell you right now, as a project manager, if I had a 500 cable job that they accidentally set at a cat six instead of cat six A, I would much rather go back and retest five cables that failed because I've gone through and reapplied the the standards to them in your tester, as opposed to have to go back and retest 500.

SPEAKER_05: 36:14

Oh, yeah. Not even close. Yes, totally agree.

SPEAKER_04: 36:19

And and I've and I've said that and I've said this before on many on many previous episodes of the podcast. Your company should have a corporate test plan. The test plan should it should include the maintenance of the testers, who's responsible for that, who's responsible to get them calibrated, making sure they monitor making sure that they're monitoring the calibration dates, training on the testers when new people come in, and you know, tracking the testers, and what to do with all those test results. I mean, that's a whole I could do a whole show and just on training plan if I wanted to. I probably should do that. Um and because that way you create that consistency, so no matter if it's technician A or technician B, the the expectation is the same. You don't have, you know, like you said, one person labeling the TRs with lowercase, another person doing with upper uppercase, and and they have you that's that's not uniform. That's not uniform, you know. So so I get that. Tom, what a great show, man. I appreciate you taking time and and coming on today to to challenge these. Uh well, we exceed our expectation. We said five. Yeah. Of course, often again.

SPEAKER_05: 37:25

I know what did I more than do there? Like seven? I honestly I I told you I've got a lit actually we did more than seven because I threw questions at you. So we did more than seven. I could seven. I could keep going. It's it it is it's fun. And you know, um, it's this topic, this topic is when you when you s when you talk to people who have to live uh and and work with this issue and wrestle with it, it becomes one that that you enjoy because you can you can you can help navigate them and save time, save money, um, help them be better at their job, help organizations succeed. It's it's it's a fun topic for us, it really is.

SPEAKER_04: 38:08

Let me ask you one final question. So actually, I guess technically be eight. Is cat eight on your radar?

SPEAKER_05: 38:14

Uh cat eight is uh is uh well it is. I mean our tester can test cat eight, it actually exceeds um cat eight frequency.

SPEAKER_04: 38:26

Because you said it swept up to 500. I just took that to meant that that was all swept up. So you're saying your your tester is a two gig?

SPEAKER_05: 38:34

Our tester, even the 500 megahertz. So I'll explain this. Softing's pretty cool. We we build stuff, um uh kind of we kind of overbuild things at times, okay. So all of our wire expert certifiers can test cable actually up to CAT 8 is 2,000 megahertz. All of our certification testers can test up to 2,400 megahertz, well in excess of CAT 8 requirements, okay. Uh, but we build a license limitation into the uh inexpensive wire expert to only test up to 500 megahertz. So if if if your user wanted to test CAD 8, and there's not a lot of it out there, we know it's it hasn't been as popular, I guess, as as some people kind of prognosticated it to to be, right? Um but if your user wanted to test CAD 8 and they bought the simple wire expert 500, they can just buy a license upgrade and plug that into the tester, and that hardware will test the 2000 megahertz category 8 limits.

SPEAKER_04: 39:42

Yeah, I think the only Cat 8 questions I typically get are from people like on Reddit who they're running some cable for their home network. And I want to use Cat 8 because it's the best. Yeah. Why are you running Cat 8? Why? Cat 6 is perfectly fine for your house. Cat 6 is Yes, it is.