From Tech to Salesperson: Building Trust in the ICT Industry

Tim Carroll joins Chuck to share expert strategies for technicians transitioning to sales roles or starting their own low-voltage businesses, providing practical wisdom from his 25 years of industry experience and his book "Sales by the Book."

• Everyone is a salesperson, especially technicians who represent the company to customers
• ICT sales differ from other industries due to complex channels involving consultants, architects, contractors, manufacturers, and end users
• Avoid "product dumping" and focus first on discovery to understand customer pain points
• The four anchors of successful sales: persistence, patience, integrity, and attitude
• Sales professionals need thick skin and should understand "no" often means "not yet"
• Build your personal brand based on integrity and consistently delivering on promises
• Warm referrals produce better results than cold calling
• Network with adjacent trades like electrical contractors, office furniture companies, and real estate managers
• Use storytelling to demonstrate how you've solved similar problems for other customers
• Technical knowledge is a significant advantage when complemented with good sales skills

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on YouTube, hit the bell for notifications, and give us a five-star rating on your podcast platform of choice. Check out our website to schedule a 15-minute consultation or purchase a Let's Talk Cabling challenge coin.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Low-Voltage Sales
• 9:16 Everyone is a Salesperson
• 15:35 Meet Tim Carroll, Sales Expert
• 21:06 The Complexity of ICT Sales
• 27:08 Sales Principles and Biblical Wisdom
• 33:16 Common Sales Mistakes and Discovery
• 38:17 Building Your Personal Brand
• 43:37 Finding Leads and Building Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys, welcome to another episode of let's Talk Cabling. If you're hanging your shingle, starting your own low-voltage business you've been good at doing technician stuff, but now you're ready to do your own company and you've been struggling with sales. I've got the show for you.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Welcome to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low-volt voltage industry connects. Hosted by Chuck Bowser, rcdd. We're here to empower installers, designers and industry pros with the tips, stories and best practices you need to stay ahead. From copper to fiber, standards to innovation, this is the show that keeps you plugged into success. So grab your tools, turn up the volume and let's talk cabling.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers, estimators, project managers, designers, customers, even IT personnel. We are connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the bell button and the subscribe button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind giving us a five-star rating? Those simple little steps helps us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry. Wednesday nights, 6 pm, eastern Standard Time. What are you doing? You know you get to ask your favorite favorite RCDD questions on installation, design, certification, credentialing, career path. I'll even tell you how to cook barbecue if you ask me. You ask me anything you want, but I can't help but, chug, I'm driving my truck on Wednesday nights at 6 pm. I know I get an accident, but I can't help but, chug, I'm driving my truck, it's Wednesday night at 6 pm, I know I get an accident. I record them and you can watch them at your convenience, so there's no excuse not to be listening to them. Also, while this show is free and will always remain free. If you find value in this content, would you click on that QR code right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even schedule a 15's talk cable challenge coin brand spanking new brands. I only have 25 of them, so they're gonna go quick. Just saying right now, just saying so.

Speaker 1: 2:15

As I said, I spent a lot of time talking to technicians in classes, talking to technicians in in social media platforms and in direct messages and questions and LinkedIn, and probably one of the most common questions I get that's non-technical is Chuck, how do I sell? I've started my own company. Where do I find leads? How do I talk to people? I'm good at terminating single mode fiber, but when I get in front of a customer, I start getting sweaty palms and I start stuttering and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1: 2:45

Okay, and even if you're not having your own low voltage company, this is a good show for you. You want me to tell you why? Because everybody is a salesperson. Everybody is a salesperson. I said that louder for the people in the back because I can hear but, chuck, I'm just a technician, I'm just pulling cable. You know what? When the customer thinks of your company. They're not thinking of the owner, they're not thinking of the project manager, they're thinking of the person who spends the most time in front of them, which is you, the technician. So everybody is a salesperson. That's why we're so big on professionalism in this industry.

Speaker 1: 3:20

Now again, I am a master of many trades, but sales is not one of them. I've done every position in this industry except for sales, but I know a lot of people in the industry. This is actually the third author I've had on this program. So I've got somebody who wrote a book on selling, who not only is an author on selling, he's a peer and a close friend of mine, Tim Carroll. Welcome to the show, my friend. How are you?

Speaker 3: 3:44

doing Good. Thank you, chuck. Appreciate you having me on, absolutely appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Not a problem. It's always a pleasure to have a friend on the show. So for the people who may not know who you are, can you just give us the 30-second Tim Carroll spiel.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Yeah, appreciate it, chuck. So yeah, it's been great working with you. I've been in this industry now for probably 25 years. I've worked for a couple different manufacturers, worked for a system integrator, a regional system integrator running their sales for them as well. Just a guy that grew up in Kentucky and spent some time in Texas, out in North Texas, and then slowly migrated my way back to North Carolina, and I've been here for gosh 30 years now.

Speaker 1: 4:31

All great states, by the way, all great states. I've lived in Texas. I lived in Texas for a short while. I did a project in Tennessee. I didn't live in Tennessee, but did a project there. Kentucky's not too far from there. My wife and I were looking at, maybe when we retired, maybe places in Kentucky or maybe even Tennessee, just to get out of the Florida heat, get away from the humidity and stuff like that. Right, that's right. Hey, before we get started, let me ask you this question, because it's probably one I get asked quite often what makes sales different in our industry when you compare them to other industries?

Speaker 3: 5:06

Well, I think one of the things that makes our sales in our area different is it's kind of complicated Versus a person that's selling, maybe, software straight to a business, so it's just business to business. There's not the channel that you're dealing with and so at any given time, from a manufacturer standpoint, right, we could be dealing with a consultant, we could be dealing with the architect to drive the spec. We're dealing, obviously, with installers and integrators that are vital to our installation, but then you have the pricing through distribution and through the channel, and then it may be dictated from an end user. So I see there's hardly any time that two deals are ever the same and I think that adds a degree of complexity to what we're selling and what we're doing versus some other areas.

Speaker 1: 6:01

I think that would also, at least for me, that would attract me, because I get bored really easily and you know I can only terminate so many category six jacks. All right, I'm going to start being okay. What else can I do? What else can I do above and beyond this? So the fact that no two sales are alike, that would be something I think would attract people like me. And you know, as you were saying, I didn't think about that.

Speaker 1: 6:25

But you're right, because you know there was a I don't mention this, I don't admit to this in public too often but there was a short period of time and when I say short I mean less than six months where I quit my job, my low-volume job in Mississippi, and I moved back to Florida because I want to be close to my kids. And that was right, right at the tail end of the uh, what was it when? Right, when the market dropped, it was the early 2000s, something like that right, where the market just kind of went flat. I could not find a job in low voltage to save my soul. So I but you know what, the bill collectors keep coming. You know, the kids still want to have food.

Speaker 1: 7:07

So I took a job and it only lasted six months as a car salesman, ah, at a at a mazda dealership in tampa, florida, courtesy mazda. And I didn't flourish because in that position you almost have to be willing to lie and not, not even have a, not even have a soul right right, but you're right.

Speaker 1: 7:24

When you start, when you start mentioning all the different fads, all the different people that you could be talking to, like the architects and the GC and the customer and the end user and maybe even equipment manufacturers, it made me think right away back to my short six-month career in selling. The only person I had to talk with was the person in front of me, right, and maybe their spouse if their spouse wasn't there, right. So so you're right, it's a lot more complex. I never really thought about that before and it could be. Let me ask you this how long did it take you when you came, when you came to this industry, to get to the point where you felt like you were comfortable enough to actually make enough sales to live off of?

Speaker 3: 8:05

Well, I'd say it all the time I still don't know what I'm doing and I've been in this business for 30 years. I mean from a technical standpoint. Goodness gracious the installers know so much more than I do. But it took oh gosh, I would think when I first jumped into sales at the integrator level it took probably six months to nine months to figure out just you know what deals and how they kind of come together, who's driving the opportunity where you know.

Speaker 3: 8:41

Sometimes, again, you may be a sub to an electrical, sometimes you may be directly with the end user. But it probably took a good six months to just figure out the lay of the land of how the deals go together. And I had come out of a diverse background to where it was business to business I'd also done some retail sales in the boat business as well to where you're getting immediate feedback. Immediate reaction that's another. One of the complications to our business is you may be working on something today and you don't get immediate feedback. It may take a year, two years before you actually see something that you're working on actually come to be in a purchase order.

Speaker 1: 9:17

I've told this story before. I'll give you the abbreviated version. When I worked for Hinkley's McC DC area, my boss literally did sales calls on this individual for a government agency I don't want to say who it was for five years before we even got the opportunity to do the first bid. And then, once we got that bid, obviously we got awarded the contract and I think they're still working on that contract actually. But but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a. Uh, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Speaker 3: 9:46

Yes, and there's a big difference between winning a project uh, perhaps, going and doing a service call mac work and then developing an account. Uh, you know, each one leads to the next right a service call uh, going out and running one drop for some wireless access or something leads to perhaps getting on the list to do a project, and then the project can lead to developing an account. But there is a different mindset that goes along with account development versus just trying to go win a project.

Speaker 1: 10:22

I love how you said account development, because I guess I've been saying that my entire career but I've never used them big fancy words. I use the cable puller words.

Speaker 3: 10:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:34

And because I tell technicians all the time look, look, you know you heard me say at the beginning of the thing the customer typically thinks of you, the technicians in front of them. And I've actually had times where, when I've left one company to go to another company, once the company the customers from the old company used to use me found me on one of the new companies. They went and found out where I worked, so they start using the new company. That's a relationship. Yes, if you can harness that into sales, that's, you know, that's legendary. Let me ask you this, because I mentioned, you were an author Go ahead and tell us a little bit about your book and what inspired you to write that book.

Speaker 3: 11:06

Yeah, absolutely. And you know something I was just thinking about when you're saying that, a common theme that I, when I was with a contractor, used to say sales may sell the first job, but the technician is what sells the second job and keeps you in the account, and that is vitally important to remember. But yeah, thanks for asking about the book. It's called Sales by the Book. It's a faith-based book, it's a biblical suggestions for the sales professional.

Speaker 3: 11:37

And kind of how this came about was I had worked in a variety of different industries, everything from selling boats to point-of-sale systems. I've had two rep firms where we sold point-of-sale systems and then some marketing tools to boat, rv and automobile dealerships. And then I've been, of course, in this business in our industry for 25, 30 years now with different manufacturers. So I've always kind of come from a sales perspective and I see life through a sales eyes. But I started reading through the Bible and I started seeing things that I thought was good to live by, these are good principles. But then I started looking and I'm like, buried within that that's a sales principle. Not only is it good to live by, but it's a sales principle within there, and so that's how I kind of started putting and it's basically written in a devotional style of devotions that apply to a sales kind of application, but it's also just good things to live by as well.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Is there one off the top of your head that you can think of one of your favorite biblical verses that translates great to sales?

Speaker 3: 12:52

Well, I'll tell you two very simple ones would be Matthew 5, 37, where it says let your yes be yes and your no be no. I think at the most basic, simplest form that is one of the key things you mentioned about. There's a perception out there of sales in some other industries, but if you live by that rule of let your yes be yes and no be no, it kind of takes care of things. The other is the golden rule in Matthew 7, 12, where it says you know doing to others as you'd have done to you. That's a pretty simple thing. If, when you're treating customers the way you would want to be treated, you're probably going to have some success.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Let me ask you this, because you said you've been doing sales in the low voltage industry for quite a few years. Who were your mentors or pivotal moments?

Speaker 3: 13:47

That's a good question. So I think, just getting started in the industry, I knew nothing, nothing about the cabling industry and I had a cousin that was a controller for a regional integrator and getting you know, he asked me to come and head up the sales and so that was a very key, pivotal point of kind of getting into the industry. You know, when I spent some time at the different manufacturers that I've been with, there's been key people that have served a lot. Some of those you've had on here probably you mentioned to Carol Oliver, carrie Higbee, val McGuire all those folks in our businesses has served as helping kind of shape and form some of my approaches to the business.

Speaker 1: 14:40

Yeah, and this industry is kind of. It's not difficult to break into. It just takes showing up and being willing to learn. But we have our own lingo, we have our own acronyms and we have acronyms, multiple acronyms that mean the exact same thing, and it's one of the hardest things to really master an industry.

Speaker 1: 15:03

And I know this wasn't you per se, but I know I've seen, I've dealt with salesperson people in the past in the industry where companies are large companies are horrible about buying somebody who's a good salesperson selling widgets at some other company. Well, you might be good at selling widgets and there are a lot of principles that cross over. But when you throw in that extra layer of the language and the lingo because we we can people in the low voltage industry can spot a fake for a mile away. You know and a lot of it has to do with with with you know how, what, what, what lingo they use, what acronyms they use and how they treat. But you're right, I love the golden rule. You know, if you treat other people the way that you know that you would want to be treated, you're going to get along fine in this industry. You truly are.

Speaker 4: 15:51

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Speaker 1: 16:35

So let's dive deep into some of your strategies right, Some of your tools, maybe some of your experiences, right? What's one of the most common mistakes that you see ICTP professionals making when they're trying to sell?

Speaker 3: 16:46

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things, chuck when a technician you know kind of makes that transition into being like a sales person or a business owner sales person or a business owner first of all, they probably think that there's some magical formula that if you say these words, it's going to produce sales. And that's just not the case. Right, you've got to show up, be there, do what you say you're going to be. I think it starts with integrity. You just have to have integrity and doing what you say you're going to do. I talk a lot about your personal brand. Who are you in the marketplace? That means a lot and when you're first starting out, you have to start building your personal brand. Yes, you may be selling for this contractor or you may be selling for this manufacturer, for this distributor, but at the end of the day, it's your personal brand, who you are in the marketplace, that people are trusting and whether they're going to buy something from you or not.

Speaker 1: 17:50

Yeah, it's a small industry, it truly is. And when I say small, I mean I literally have quit working for companies, got hired on somewhere else and then somebody who I used to work for before got hired as my boss. Right right, it is a small industry, it truly is. And all you have is your reputation and you know. I'm glad you said branding because, especially in today's environment, with technicians doing posts on, you know, instagram and LinkedIn and all the other social media platforms, it is a brand and you really got to think carefully about what you say or what you put up on social media, because it's all about you don't want to tarnish anybody. You don't want to have offense is not the right word, maybe you know the word. You don't want to alienate somebody who's a potential client just because you have a strong opinion about I don't know X, y, z issue. That's one thing you'll never hear on this podcast. You'll never hear me talk politics, or I'll talk about barbecue. I'll certainly tell you pork barbecue is better than beef barbecue any day of the week.

Speaker 3: 18:58

You may be starting fighting words, being from North Carolina. There's debates on Eastern and Western barbecue. Take that conversation into Memphis or take that conversation into Kansas and you might have another fight on your hands.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. That's kind of what got me going on barbecue. I did a project in Memphis and I fell in love with barbecue. Yeah, from there. So yeah've, been doing it from there. So you know, there you go. So let me ask you this what sales strategies or frameworks do you swear by?

Speaker 3: 19:25

I think a couple of mistakes if I can start it there that a lot of people will make is when they finally get a meeting with a customer, they immediately want to go into product dump. Customer, they'd immediately want to go into product dump. They want to immediately start talking product when they don't even have the needs uncovered. So it's vitally important even if you get invited to come in and do a presentation or you get asked for a price, there's a natural reaction for us that we want to immediately provide a quote or provide a bid or provide our product or provide our fix. But we haven't really gone through the discovery phase and so we have to take that time to actually go through discovery phase and start asking questions. If you start asking questions, most of the time the customer then will lead you to what they're the most interested in.

Speaker 1: 20:21

Right and and, and. You know I learned this from one of my mentors. You know, first you learn, you just you. First you learn how to talk to people Right and and that's. You know that sounds difficult but it's really super easy and I've. I practice this all the time at at Bixie conferences.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Right, you know? If I see you walking around and I see you wearing a Harley-Davidson shirt, hey, what do you ride, man? Yeah, Get them talking about something they like and then let the conversation just kind of evolve and then you might get to the point where you might say, hey, who do you work for? What do you do? But you're right. If you go in there saying, hey, look, man, we got the best single mode fiber. And they don't have any fiber on their project. Their pain point is power over ether for wireless access points and stuff. They're going to be tone deaf to you and they're not going to listen to what the heck you're saying. I think you're right.

Speaker 1: 21:13

I could see a lot of people coming right out of doing their own stuff, starting hanging their own shingle. They feel like they're in a new arena. They're suffering from what does my wife call it? My wife does manager training. She's got a name for it. Well, you don't feel qualified to talk to that person, right, right. And so they want to just overload them with, like you said, oh yeah, well, you know, single mode, this multi-mode, that blah, blah, blah. We hit them with a lot of irrelevant information when the customer's like why is this guy talking to me about this? We don't even have fiber here in the building, right, right, and I think that's a great point. What was another? You said you had a couple of them.

Speaker 3: 21:56

Well, that's probably the biggest thing is taking that time up on the front end of going through the discovery phase and trying to uncover and asking the questions and really just kind of, what's keeping this customer up at night? What are they trying to solve? What problems are you trying to solve? A problem that a customer has and most of the time they're not going to make a change unless they've had some kind of a pain point. So whether they've had, if they're changing technologies, so that means that they need to be moving from Cat 6 to 6A you know the 6A to a shielded solution. But you've got to uncover what their pain points are and what problems that they're having.

Speaker 3: 22:51

I always like to ask the question what keeps them up at night? You know what's your biggest concern right now and typically they'll kind of ask you that. The other thing that I've had success with is taking the pressure off the customer of where you ask them the question of, like you know I know that perhaps that you're already set with your fiber products what is something that we can talk about? What is something that we can talk about? And they'll typically say, well, you know, tell me about your, you know copper cable, or tell me about your high-speed assemblies or something, and that'll kind of lead you to where they want to go and definitely getting into what's on their roadmap for emerging technologies. What directions are they heading with their infrastructure so that you can kind of come in and be the industry expert and the subject matter expert with?

Speaker 1: 23:44

them. I think what you just described and you're the sales expert, not me but I think what you just described is called consultive selling. Yes, right, yeah, instead of value-based selling. And that's where I think that's where a lot of low voltage people just hanging their shingles out get tripped up as the customer says they give them a price because, as well, yeah, I got something to do better, and they immediately want to drop their price. Well then, maybe that's not a fit. You know it's got to be a mutually beneficial relationship for both you and the customer, and if the customer doesn't see that, then maybe you spend your energy on trying to find other customers. Right, let's take a short break.

Speaker 4: 24:24

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Speaker 1: 25:08

How important is it to build those long-term relationships instead of pushing the products?

Speaker 3: 25:13

Oh, absolutely. You know I have customers that I have worked with for years that we didn't necessarily sell something to them in the very beginning, but we built that relationship. They become a trust beginning, but we built that relationship, they become a trust. All of a sudden there got to be scenarios and situations where they were calling me when they were in need of something or had a question about something. So I became kind of their go-to to help them solve problems or help them solve, get answers even if it wasn't my product, and then eventually end up selling something to them. And the relationships then they grew to where they knew that you know they could count on me to at least point them in the right direction and tell them the truth.

Speaker 1: 26:02

You had mentioned that we function in a highly technical industry, and we do, and it's tough selling it. How, let me ask your opinion, do you think a salesperson should have a credential like an RCDD or tech?

Speaker 3: 26:19

Well, it certainly helps. I think one of the questions that may come up is from a transition. I think you started this talking about when a technician transitions into being a business owner. One of the biggest advantages that they have is that they do possess that technical knowledge, and so I think it's a great advantage when they move into the business owner role, and most end users and customers enjoy and appreciate being able to work with somebody that has the technical knowledge and they're the business owner that they know they can make a decision right there. And so I've never been one that has had a tremendous technical knowledge, but I've always tried to be the person that knows, the person that has the technical knowledge and knows where to get the answer and, being honest with the customer that I don't know I don't have the answer, but I know who has the answer and I will go the customer that I don't know I don't have the answer, but I know who has the answer and I will go find that and bring that back to you.

Speaker 1: 27:17

I knew there was a reason I liked you. It's the same way I tell people all the time you know, they see, because I'm an RCDD or because of the podcast or whatever, they automatically assume I'm an expert. And I tell people all the time I am not an expert, I'm just, I know a lot but I'm not an expert. But I'll be the first to tell you if I don't know something. And I'll be the first to tell you hey look, I don't know the answer to that, but I can get you the answer for that. Just give me a day or so and I'll get you the answer. And I think that buys a lot more credibility with customers than if you just try to make up some answer Because I've had students do this. Let me know if you've ever had a customer do this. I've had students ask me questions in classrooms that after I answered it for them, I figured out that they already knew the answer. They were just testing me to see if I knew the answer Right. Is that something you find with customers?

Speaker 3: 28:05

Yeah, I think sometimes they will maybe want to test you a little bit and they may ask a leading question that they already know the answer to.

Speaker 3: 28:18

And then if you just try to make something up and mislead them, then you've blown your trust with that customer and they're just going to kind of dismiss you. So I write in my book about what I consider the four anchors of sales and that is persistence, patience, integrity and attitude. And I think those are kind of the four anchors that makes a successful sales rep. There's a persistence factor, because when they say no, no just means I haven't gone through the discovery phase close enough to figure out what the no is for. Is it price, is it the quality, is it the performance? What is it? And then patience they're absolutely in our industry Very rarely when you call on a customer or when you respond to an RFP or provide a bid, there's a patience factor that goes along with waiting versus selling a car, where it's typically instant gratification of they're going to buy or they're not going to buy, right. And then integrity everything is the foundation with integrity and then having the right attitude, you know, am.

Speaker 3: 29:24

I here to serve the customer.

Speaker 1: 29:27

For the low-voltage installer who just started his own company. How can they collaborate with technical teams, people who get the information they need?

Speaker 3: 29:38

Well, I think, first of all, whichever manufacturer they're working with is going to have application engineers, they're going to have product managers, they're going to have technical people on staff. Obviously, there's webinars, there's seminars, there's podcasts, like yours, and so I think just reaching out to the network of people that they're working with will help lead them to the technical knowledge Always jumping in on emerging technology forums and seeing what is out there that is new that they need to be talking about is vital and I'm glad you said that because I tell people, because I function in those areas with the technicians in the social media where they're just starting to do their sales.

Speaker 1: 30:27

And somebody said, well, where do you get your cable from? I get it from Amazon. Yeah, good luck in calling Amazon and asking them to help you design that data center. Right, right, good luck in. Good luck in calling Amazon to do the return or having to deal with the loss, the financial loss, because you bought CCA cabling. Good luck with that, right, that's, that's why it's always good to deal with, you know, reputable manufacturers because they're going to have the technical teams and the back of the stage people to really help you with your issues. Right, all right, absolutely, yeah. So let's talk about what skills should an ICT professional develop if they really want to start getting into sales, knowing that they're coming out of technical and they know they got to do this whole sales thing, right? What skills should they really work on developing?

Speaker 3: 31:10

What skills should they really work on developing? Well, I think, listening, listening to what the customer wants and needs, asking questions, having good, I think just a natural curiosity goes a long way, just having a curiosity of what this customer's needs are Perhaps we're working at all kinds of different vertical markets and just having a natural curiosity of how do you do things. I tell brand new sales reps all the time one of the biggest things that they have going for them is the fact that they're brand new and customers like to be the experts, right.

Speaker 3: 31:54

And so take advantage of that. You have a window of time to where you don't have to be the expert, Ask that customer why did you make that decision? Why did you use that? Why do you do these things? And customers love that. They love to talk about that stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:12

And that's solid advice right there. And in that conversation you might discover what their pain points are and then, when you confer with your sales mentor or your sales supervisor, there's a potential way to do some selling there, right. Yeah, so you know, I love how you said earlier. You know, sales gets you the first job, the technician gets you the second job, right. So how can a technician shift their mindset from being a technician to being a trusted advisor?

Speaker 3: 32:42

I think it's just a matter of shifting from. They already have the technical knowledge, they know how things get installed and so, again, there's not a magical formula, it's just having the natural curiosity and being able to. I think probably the biggest challenge that I see a technician-turned-sales rep or technician-turned-owner is at some point you do have to ask for the business, you have to lead for the business, you have to lead to the business, and I think a lot of technicians turn to sales would feel like that that's being pushy. They feel like that that's being like you're you know your stereotypical sales rep and it's just not you're. You're leading that customer to a point of making a decision. At some point you have to ask, to ask them for the business and be able to ask them for referrals, you know the best Right.

Speaker 1: 33:38

If you don't ask, the answer is always no, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 3: 33:43

And when they ask and the answer is no, no again just means that we haven't gone through the discovery points of what is the pain point and why is it a no? Is it the price? Is it the price? Is it the quality? Is it the? Is there some other line? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:59

I ask people all the time, you know, after I get done teaching a class, you know and this is kind of salesy but it's not really salesy but I ask all the time what's one thing I can do to make this class 10% better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Be on that constant growth path right what advice would you give somebody who's looking to get into ICT sales today what first steps?

Speaker 3: 34:23

Well, first steps that's a great question, I think, building some of your knowledge. You've got to understand how deals work, how the industry is laid out, who's making the decisions, those types of things. So you've got to kind of get that baseline of understanding the channel, understanding the way the business goes together, especially if you're coming out of a business-to-business type of an environment, because again, you've got so many different layers to the distributors, the contractors, the manufacturers, the architects, the consultants, all those different layers, end users. Who's making those decisions? So you've got to kind of learn the lay of that. And then from there you've got to go to work. You know you've got to start making the calls and getting into networking events and starting to uncover where opportunities are.

Speaker 1: 35:26

I love how you said you got to make the calls, you got to send the networking events. I love how you didn't say that you pick up the local construction sales book and start calling on stuff that's being built in your area, right, right, right. I see a lot of technicians say that they go. Where are you finding your leads? There's a name for it. I can't remember what it's called, but there's a book that literally will list all the construction projects going on in your area and sizes and all that stuff. The problem with that book is we don't typically work for the general contractors, we work for the end users and by the time it makes it to that book, that deal for the low-voltage project has already been done.

Speaker 3: 36:04

Right, right One of the most simplest things that a low-voltage contractor can do, though, is a lot of our business falls under the electrical contract. We're a sub to electrical contractor. At the very simplest place, you could start reaching out to all the electrical contractors that are in your area and just ask them to be on their bid list, and so that will at least start some dialogue, and from there we want to get into relationships and negotiated type of work, but at the very minimum that will start getting some activities going from that standpoint and electricians, generally speaking, don't like doing low-voltage work.

Speaker 1: 36:48

They'd rather focus on the high-voltage stuff, right. They'd be more than happy to subcontract it out and let somebody deal with them small little cables and not have to deal with the headaches. Right, right, that's a good thing. Let me ask you about this cold calling. Yes, what are your thoughts on cold calling?

Speaker 3: 37:04

has to do some type of cold calling, but that needs to probably be a smaller percentage of how they're going about their business. The best business that you can get is warm referrals is somebody that you've worked with. If I was starting out a new cabling contracting business today, I would probably first start out and think who is all the customers that I've done work for in the past? That would be the very first thing I'd start with. That's where I'd start with the calls. Then I'd start thinking who is at that business that has maybe moved to another company.

Speaker 3: 37:50

And that would be another set of layers of where I would start calling. That would be at the very bottom of basics of where I would start, and then at some point you have to start getting into cold calling. But that becomes a little bit more complicated because you have to get in.

Speaker 1: 38:13

Yeah, I think by far the better method is go to the trade events, right?

Speaker 1: 38:19

yes and practice your, your people skills, talking to people and starting conversations. Don't don't try to sell them right out of, just just have a conversation with them. Yes, and then maybe you know at some point hey mind if I get your business card, because you never know later on who you might need or whatever. And that doesn't have to be a Bixie conference. It could be a Bixie conference, but I mean they do.

Speaker 1: 38:39

Anixter and Graybar do these small little events all the time. And just there's another content creator. What's his show? It's the 360 Electrician and he just did a video the other day where he was at some event where they had a booth, but the event was really I don't know what the event was about, but I know the event, like the HVAC contractors there and ceiling contractors there, so he got to know all of them just from being at that event. Right, those are opportunities because they might get HVAC people, might come across a project where they might need to have some cabling done. And hey, I know a guy, I met a guy at an event.

Speaker 3: 39:19

Right. Some of the best networking reps that I've collaborated with have been in the office furniture business. They tend to know of every project that's coming and they know about it early.

Speaker 3: 39:37

They know that stuff way in advance, way in advance. So expanding your network outside of just manufacturers or distributors in our business, but commercial carpets, the furniture sales reps those are good people to network with. Real estate management companies, the CBREs, the Joan Link-Lassalles, the you know some of those companies. They have projects going on all the time and so it takes effort, but that's going to be relationship building and where they ultimately get to where they trust you and things have changed, but they haven't changed so much to where people buy from people they like that.

Speaker 1: 40:25

Right there that, yes, they would much rather buy from somebody they know, somebody they have a relationship with, than somebody they don't know.

Speaker 3: 40:33

Right.

Speaker 1: 40:34

Absolutely. What words of encouragement do you have for somebody who's going to be intimidated by sales or the sales process?

Speaker 3: 40:41

Well, I think it's just if you go back again to the golden rule, do unto others as you'd have done to you. You know, if you kind of lead with that and lead with passion, lead with integrity, lead with those types of things, the sales will come. But you have to kind of you know, the worst thing you can do is start out from the very beginning. It seems like we've been saying this over and over and over again, but if you're starting out and building your personal brand, the worst thing to start out is violating trust, violating those types of things. So you've got to lead with passion, lead with integrity.

Speaker 1: 41:20

You know, one of the things, I think, that separates sales from all the others. You have to have thick skin, you have to be not get personally offended or get your feelings hurt when you hear the word no. How do you deal with rejection? What's a good tip for that?

Speaker 3: 41:35

Right, all right. Well, you know again, you're not taking no personally no is really just another way of saying not yet. And so you have to go back through discovery and kind of figure out what their needs are as well. And you know, one of the things is the power of a story is when you've solved problems for somebody else. Then you use the power of a story of like this is how we had a client just like yours. This is what their situation was, here's what we did to solve it, here's what the outcome was. The power of a story goes a long way when you're trying to build that rapport and build that relationship.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Tim, if somebody wants to get in touch with you or buy a copy of your book, where can they find you or find your book?

Speaker 3: 42:27

Probably the easiest thing from getting in touch with me is you can find me on LinkedIn. So just go on LinkedIn and connect with me. Feel free to shoot me a note through LinkedIn. As far as finding the book, it's available on Amazon. Sells by the book is the title Sells by the book, probably.

Speaker 1: 42:49

Hold it back up again. I'm going to make a thumbnail out of that, make sure.

Speaker 2: 42:51

I can see your face though.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Make sure I can see your face though. Oh, make sure you can see your face. There you go yeah there you go. That'll work. All right, I'll make a. I'll make a thumbnail out of that.

Speaker 3: 43:04

Perfect. But uh Barnes and Noble online and uh Amazon, uh, you can find both of those uh find it on there.

Speaker 1: 43:09

So, tim, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and helping some people out today. Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 3: 43:13

Chuck appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Thanks for listening to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low-voltage industry connects. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your crew. Got questions or ideas for the show? Chuck wants to hear from you. Stay connected, stay informed and always aim for excellence. Until next time, keep those cables clean, your standards high and your future bright. Let's Talk Cabling empowering the industry, one connection at a time.