Cable Talk After Dark: Myths, Markets, and Manufacturer Warranties

We're empowering installers, designers, and industry pros with tips, stories, and best practices to stay ahead in the low-voltage industry. This Wednesday night episode tackles key industry challenges like finding outdated technical manuals, understanding certifications, and navigating employment options.

• Finding the 13th Edition TDMM for contractor licensing despite it being out of print
• CTSI vs. BICSI certifications - complementary credentials for different specializations
• Union vs. non-union career paths - comparing benefits, pay structures, and job protection
• Understanding plenum cable ratings and avoiding common code violations
• Manufacturer warranty programs and their importance for risk management
• Study strategies for the ITSIM certification and other industry credentials
• Subcontracting strategies for low-voltage professionals seeking work

Keep your questions coming through social media, email, and direct messages for future episodes. Knowledge is power!

Chapters

• 0:00 Live After Hours Introduction
• 3:40 Challenge Coins for Podcast Supporters
• 8:27 ITSIM Study Tips for Technicians
• 12:31 Finding the 13th Edition TDMM
• 19:10 Subcontracting Work Strategies
• 24:07 Understanding Plenum Cable Ratings
• 29:51 CTSI vs. BICSI Certifications
• 33:21 Union vs. Non-Union Work Comparison

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low-voltage industry connects. Hosted by Chuck Bowser, rcdd. We're here to empower installers, designers and industry pros with the tips, stories and best practices you need to stay ahead. From copper to fiber, standards to innovation, this is the show that keeps you plugged into success. So grab your tools, turn up the volume and let's talk cabling.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Wednesday night, 6 pm, eastern Standard Time. You know that can only mean one thing Live after hours with your favorite RCDD. That would be me. You know I'm your favorite RCDD. Just go ahead and admit it. Go ahead and admit it. So lots of great questions already coming in. I got some coming on TikTok. I got some that were submitted to me this week via direct messages and emails, stuff like that. Got lots and lots of stuff to cover and 27 minutes to do it in. Well, 28 minutes to do it in Acronym Challenge. Acronym Challenge.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Let's pick a random acronym out of the book, out of the Bixby Field Practice Guidelines. I highly suggest that you get a copy of these. So let's do KVA, kva, kva. What does that acronym mean? It can be found in the ICT field practices guidelines KVA yes, see, if you know what it means, go ahead and type it in, all righty. Always do the acronym challenge. You know we're also going to do the. Do I know the big dicks and mayas? No, no, I don't even know what you're talking about there. Yeah, there you go. So nobody knows it's kilovolt amps, kilovolt amps. So yeah, there you go, an acronym that you probably don't use very often, but it is a good one, always do Wednesday nights. With. What are you drinking? Chuck is drinking water with lemon and lime essential oil drops in them. You might be wondering why. Chuck had kidney stones one time and they said the way you get rid of them is to drink lemon and lime juice. So I don't want to go through that again. I don't want to go through that again.

Speaker 2: 2:33

This Monday night the one that just passed you probably noticed there was not a podcast episode. Obviously it was Memorial Day. I took a break and worked on a cowboy pool for Mama, so we worked on that. We didn't quite get it done. We were converting an old stock pond 8-foot stock pond into a cowboy pool and we got it all together and realized that the pump that we bought for it was a pump that was supposed to be fitted with a pool that already had existing fittings. So we had to order some fittings off of Amazon. Gotta love Amazon. So I did not get to the podcast episode Monday night. So lots and lots of stuff happening on right. So now let's go ahead and start answering some questions.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Shotzi's in the house. You know it is appropriate. Appropriate that Shotzi's in the house, because I want to talk about something. I just got a limited number. Limited number when I say limited, I mean 25, only 25.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Let's Talk Cabling Challenge coins. Let's Talk Cabling Challenge, and each one has a unique number. So this is 001 of 25. Yes, let's talk cabling challenge coins. Now, who am I going to give these challenge coins to? I'm going to give them to my patreon members who have donated more than 500 to the podcast to keep this thing running. So you know, shotzi, that means you. Shotzi, you know you're getting one. Steve Cowles, if you happen to be listening to this episode, you know you're getting one right. Bob from the Bixie Committee Guides, you know you're getting one right. So, yeah, these guys, these individuals, have donated a lot of money to the podcast to keep it running. So you know it's got knowledge is power in the back. It's got a serial number on it. You know mine's 001 of 25. My wife's is 002 of 25. My brother's is 003 of 25. So the rest are going to be given out to people who donate to the podcast. So let's talk cabling challenge coins. They're going to come, even in their own little case as well. So, shotzi, remember. I probably don't have your address saved, so send me your address again, if you don't mind, and I'll get one of these in the mail to you, because you've been the longest fan that I've had. You've been listening to this podcast for almost since day one, almost since day one, almost since day one.

Speaker 2: 5:05

So let's go ahead and answer a couple of the questions. Let's cover the first question that was up in here, up in TikTok. I know there was two of them in here, all righty. So Michael from TikTok says he was saying saying hi, how was your weekend, how was my day? Still need to get those big ccec resources. I'm still compiling them. I reached out to several peers and I'm putting together on one list and that'll be made available via pdf. And uh, michael, let me get him take a screen snapshot of that so that way I have that copy of that comment so when I find it I can reach out to you. There we go. So yeah, bixie, cec resources, they're going to be both free and paid ones, because sometimes you just gotta pay for knowledge. You just do right.

Speaker 2: 5:56

And then the next question was any tips for studying the it's um 8th edition? So that's from Apple user 366722663. That's a lot of numbers, yes, so you must be getting ready to take one of the installation sort of credentials the tech installer, fiber installer, copper. I can never remember what that first one is. If you remember what the first one is, tell me in in the chat box. It used to be the old apprentice, uh, apprentice one, but they don't call it that anymore. So what are some tips?

Speaker 2: 6:34

The best thing to do is obviously you know you can be taking a test. When are you taking that test? Divide that time out. Find how many days you have. Divide the number of pages in the book so you can read x amount pages a day. That way you don't feel overwhelmed. You know there's an old adage in the project management world and that adage is how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. So the it's a Manual can seem like a big, daunting task. So, for example, if you've got oh, let's, two months before you take the test, that's 60 days. You've got a month. Okay, all righty, very good, 30 days. So divide the number of pages by 30 days. Make sure you read all of it. Here's what I find about most technicians Most technicians are tactile learners, meaning they really learn when they do stuff with their hands. So I'm glad to see that you're doing Corey and Steve. Corey and Steve is a great resource.

Speaker 2: 7:30

I'm going to suggest make your own flashcards. Go to Walmart, buy the package of blank flashcards. Make your own flashcards. Write a question on the front, the answer on the back and then, while you're driving to work, have your partner quiz you. Or, if you're married or at home, have a significant other, have them quiz you. Keep that to yourself. That's a good thing to do. A good thing to do because it incorporates your brain and memorization with that and then stay in it.

Speaker 2: 7:57

And then here's another big tip for you Rest the night before the exam. Don't do any additional reading, just kind of, you've already got the information's already there. It's not there. So that night before the thing, just rest, get a good night's sleep, go to bed early. Don't go out drinking, don't go out. You know, doing all this stuff you want to have a nice, clear, fresh memory.

Speaker 2: 8:18

The ITSE manual is not so bad. It's not like the TDM, which is 2,200 pages, right, I can't remember how many pages the ITSIM is. Off the top of my head, I've got the PDF copy of the ITSIM on my computer, but I don't have it open at the moment. So those are my suggestions for studying for the ITSIM manual. Okay, get in it, stay in it every day, but don't set a time right. So maybe do like an hour a day. An hour a day is going to be more than enough. He says he's a third year apprentice. Good job, good job. And hey, once you pass that test, make sure you let me know. That'd be so cool. Just to know that I know somebody just passed that test. That'd be absolutely cool. So let's go and start on with the questions. Now.

Speaker 2: 9:05

This one had some activity all the way up to the point of the show. So this guy had a really long, lengthy email from a guy named Kevin. Kevin is in Georgia and Kevin he's kind of ironic he knows me through my day job. He was one of my students at my day job, so he sat in one of my classes and he knows I got a podcast. So he reached out to me and he said I'm going to paraphrase this. He said, chuck, I want to get my 13th edition. I need to get a copy of the 13th edition. Where can I get one or access to one? He's trying to get his low-voltage contractor's license for the state of Georgia. So, of course, I reached out back to him immediately and I said have you tried eBay? And he said yeah, he's tried eBay, but there's really not a whole bunch of resources there. There are some other resources, like there's a place you can buy used technical books called Abe Books.

Speaker 2: 9:59

I didn't get a chance to serve them, but what I did, though, was right before, I want to say about 30 minutes before this live webinar, I went to my LinkedIn profile and I just typed up a message hey, linkedin profile, people help a low-voltage tech out. I got a technician who needs a copy of the 13th edition because they want to get their Georgia contractor's license. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Literally within 10 minutes, I had a message from somebody. Chuck, I got one and I'm in Georgia. Give me his email address. How cool is that? How cool is that that the community who listens to this podcast is willing to step up and help each other? I just thought that here's the thing, right. We're currently.

Speaker 2: 10:42

For those of you who don't realize the impact here, if you go to Bixby that's the one they're going to sell you you might be able to find 14th edition TDMMs on eBay, but the 13th edition. Now you're reaching back. Oh gosh, six years, seven years now, and six or seven years in the low-voltage industry is an eternity An eternity. Very few people have the 13th edition, if they have one at all. I need to get one, though, because I like collecting books. I've got the 14th and the 15th edition. I need to get a copy of the 13th. I need to go all the way back to the 8th edition, because that's when I took my RCD. So here's the thing, right.

Speaker 2: 11:33

So when you go to getting your contractor's license, a lot of the industries, a lot of the bureaucratic governments right, they're going to sit there and they're going to tell you oh yeah, well, you need to take the test, you got to be current on the NEC, and of course, they want to tie in low voltage with it. And they're going to say, yeah, you got to do the 13th edition, tdma. Well, guess what? Nobody can find that anymore. Nobody can find that anymore. Nobody can find it anymore. So this is a common occurrence. This is not the first time I've heard this. It's not the first time I've heard this.

Speaker 2: 12:06

And how do we change that right? How do we change that right? Maybe talking to the state boards, maybe find out who runs them. Or I may say look the 13th edition. You might as well say the first edition, because things have changed since then. We're in the 15th edition, getting ready to go into the 16th edition. If they haven't started working on it yet, they probably will be very soon. You see, the TDMM is updated every I don't know three to five years. Three to five years. So it's easy for a bureaucratic government, a bureaucratic agency, to fall behind, fall behind, and that's going to make it hard right.

Speaker 3: 12:48

A quick word from the folks who helped make this show possible. Are you ready to boost your fiber game? Then check out Gophar Fiber Training School, where you'll learn from the best Lee Renfro, rcdd, bixi Tech and three-time winner of the Bixi Cable Skills Challenge himself. Whether you're pulling your first strand or prepping for certification, gophar delivers hands-on, real-world training that gets you job site ready. Don't just go far. Lee will take you all the way. Sign up today and start leveling up your career. Visit GoFar on LinkedIn or click on the link in the description below.

Speaker 2: 13:33

Maybe and he's already done this he's already reached out to the testing agency and said look, I have the 15th edition, I don't have the 14th edition. And you know what they said Sorry, yeah, sorry. So there you go. So I would raise up the electrical board and say, look, the 13th edition is long gone. How about we update it to the 15th edition? Okay, so that was my suggestion and we actually already found a resource. I thought that was pretty, pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 14:03

The next question and this actually came from a low-voltage professional's wife. Yeah, she came across my content on TikTokok and she reached out to me and she had a really long uh message to me. But you know, I just want to pull it down basically her husband's rates. They got cut and they're struggling to make work, work make ends meet. They're struggling to find subcontracting work. So was there anything I could think of to find subcontracting work? So was there anything I could think of that could help them? First off, let me tell you you are not alone. You are not alone. There are a lot of low-voltage professionals right now who are dealing with pressures from companies where they're really wanting to figure out how to get back to their margin levels again, and from national contractors to even small levels again, and from national contractors to even small. This is a real-life problem for installers and people who are doing work as subcontractors. Now you did mention in your message that you were looking for work in West Virginia, virginia, tennessee, that part of the country. So what I would suggest is maybe look at local electrical contractors. See a lot of electrical contractors. While they might do low voltage, it's not typically their favorite thing to do. So reach out to them and say, hey, look, I can do low voltage. And you mentioned in the message too that you had certifications and you were a network administrator, so you've got the certification to do the structured cabling and you can do the software. Software man, that makes you a winner, winner, winner, right. So reach out to your local electrical contractors and just reach out to them and find out who is their project managers and just say, hey, look, just want to let you know I'm in this area, here's what I'm capable of doing and I can help you with that, and that would take that low-voltage work off of their shoulders. You might even want to either join or create local LinkedIn groups for, like, maybe, low-voltage contractors of Virginia, low-voltage contractors of West Virginia. If there's not one, create one. I was talking this to a peer friend of mine and they told me well, maybe get listed.

Speaker 2: 16:21

On things like Field Nation. I haven't heard enough good things about Field Nation. I'm not saying they're good or bad, I don't have any experience with them. But I've seen a lot of people, a lot of people, who do work for Field Nation because they're starting off with a small little voltage company and they have a lot of complaints about it. So just keep that in mind. Be super careful with that.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Another thing you might want to do is to contact your local AV or maybe security integrators. Find the people who actually install the equipment right. The MSPs are people who do the managed Wi-Fi provider stuff. Again, reach out to them. Again, if you want to do subcontracting work, you can't be afraid of making phone calls. Get on the phone Google's a great thing. Look them up, call them and don't just call them once. Keep calling them, keep calling them once, keep calling them, keep calling them, keep calling them. Right now, when you, when you talk to them, make sure you emphasize that you have those network administration skills, because that's going to be a good one. That's really that that's going to put you above just the regular, regular cable pulling guy right.

Speaker 2: 17:33

And since your husband says he, you know you, you said he had his journeyman license. So now you've got the electric, you've got the low voltage and the network administration. That is the trifecta, leverage it. What I would even do is put together rep groups, have these I can't remember what they call them so they'll put together just a single 8.5 by 11 piece of paper and they'll list their core competencies and the products they represent. I can't remember what they call that. Dang it, the name is escaping me at the moment. Create one of those for you as a subcontractor Journeyman, electrician, x amount of years experience, residential installation, commercial installation, network administration and then a single page Don't go crazy with it Kind of like a resume, but not a resume and then send them out to it. Right, you need to go through a mind shift and you need to really kind of. You know, go from the I can do the cable work to you know I can help you deliver a reliable infrastructure for your customer. Show them how you're going to solve their pain points. That's the key. That's the key, all right. So there you go, since the community has already helped that other person today, the one who's looking for the 13th edition. If you're listening to this podcast or you're watching this podcast on one of the forums and you know a company who's looking for a subcontractor in West Virginia, virginia, tennessee, pennsylvania or Ohio or even North Carolina, let's help this family out. Okay, let's help this family out. Get in touch with me. I'll make the connection between you and that other person and we'll get this person going Right Now.

Speaker 2: 19:11

This question comes from Kalen Kalen. Kalen shot me a short little video. He found a box of Cat6 cable at his job, and kind of funny though, because it said Cat6, 600 megahertz, cat6, 600 megahertz. Yeah, cat6 is not 600 megahertz, cat6 is 250 megahertz. So that's a marketing thing, it's a Cat6. And then it said it was plenum. Right, it said it was plenum.

Speaker 2: 19:41

So he's like well, what is plenum? What does that really mean? How is it different from other cabling? So plenum cable is a cable that's rated to be put in air handling spaces, and the most common will be the area above the ceiling tiles, because quite often that will be considered an air plenum, because what it's going to do is somewhere on that building there's an air handler which sucks in the air, filters out the dust, cools it down, sends that cold air through the ductwork back into the office, right. So it's sucking that air out of the room, out of the ceiling, so it's using the ceiling to move air on the floor. So that's called a plenum rated area.

Speaker 2: 20:19

A lot of people will get confused. I've seen this happen more than once on social media platforms, where somebody would run some cable through some HVAC duct work and then they'll say hey, look, it's plenum cable, it's okay to run in there. No, it's not. No, it's plenum cable, it's okay to run in there. No, it's not. No, it's not. You can only run through HVAC ductwork if it's for the HVAC ductwork, hvac system and it's less than six feet.

Speaker 2: 20:44

You cannot run plenum-rated voice cabling, plenum-rated data cabling, plenum-rated AV cabling through ceiling ducts. It's a code violation. It's a code violation. So plenum cable is a cable that has been listed, which means tested, tested right. The manufacturer sent that cable to UL and UL burned it and they measured how far the flame expands before it stops, how much smoke it puts off, and then it's put on the list to be installed inside of the building. That's what plenum means it's got low smoke, low toxic off-gas production from the burning process, which gives people more time to egress and get out of the building and the fire department more time to ingress, to get in the building. So you got plumb. Cable is the top one, okay. Right underneath that you have riser-rated cabling, riser-rated cable. You can run in riser-rated environments Think of stacked closets, conduit systems, stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 21:41

You cannot run. You can exceed the codebook. It is okay to put a plenum cable where a riser-rated cable will work, but it's going to be expensive because plenum cable costs more than that. So keep that in mind. And again, if you really want to go look this up, it's, it's, it's detailed in the NEC, nec Article 800, nec Article 725, 770 for plenum, for for fiber optic cabling. So it's all there. It's just make sure. So it's been. That cable has been tested by that NRTL Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, and they did a burn test in the plenum chamber and they made sure that it meets that standard.

Speaker 3: 22:29

So only use it in areas where plenum cables are. Let's take a short break. Are you trying to reach the technicians, project managers and decision makers of the ICT industry? Then why aren't you advertising on let's Talk Cabling? With over 150,000 impressions a month across podcasts, youtube and social media, this isn't just a show. It's the go-to resource for the low-voltage industry. We spotlight the tools, training and technology shaping the future of structured cabling, and your brand could be front and center. Don't just get noticed, get trusted. Email. Chuck at advertising at letstalkcablingcom and let's connect your brand to the right audience today.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Are you ready to be used? Now here's a tip for you. Here's a tip for you Do not use plenum cable where you do not have to. Okay, don't run it in a riser right there if you don't have to, because it costs more money. If you're bidding against somebody, then chances are they're going to be using a Roserady cable and they're going to win the project because they were cheaper than you.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Next question and I forgot to write down who this came from, so I apologize, but the question was how does the CTSI-certification compare to the Bixie installer credentials? Do you see CTSI heading in a similar direction for government work? Now, ctsi, that stands for Certified Technology Specialist Installation. I believe it's Cedia that does that, either Cedia or Axia, I can never remember the two, I always get them mixed up. So it's a certification that you can get. That's AV-focused, it's on AV installation, av configuration and commissioning to the AV standards. So it's very similar to the Bixi.

Speaker 2: 24:27

The Bixi, though the Bixi one is going to really be covering copper and fiber cable for voice and data systems, fiber optic bonding and grounding, stuff like that. Now, the Bixie technicians, the Bixie certifications, they're going to be required at many, if not all, federal government or military installs, especially if they've got you know if they're under the DOD specs consoles, especially if they've got you know if they're under the DOD specs. Now the good news is they're not really hard to get. Well, they are easier to get than they were in the past. They're not easy to get by any stretch of the imagination, because you got to study for them, like the guy's doing in the TikTok feed. Right, he's going to read and study that. It's a manual and then he's got to take that test. But the primary focus for the CTSI is going to be for audio-video systems, where the primary focus for the Bixie installer is going to be telecommunications cabling, voice cabling, data cabling. There is AEV stuff in the Bixie credentialing stuff too, but it doesn't go in the depth that the CTSI does. So the certification path you get the CTS, the CTS-I, the CTS-D. For the BICSI. You got the Installer 1, installer 2, installer 2, copper, installer 2, fiber Technician, then the RCD.

Speaker 2: 25:44

When you start looking since you asked about the government space we are starting to see a lot more verbiage in government contracts requiring the CTS-I certification, the Bixie credentials. They've got a strong presence in the government right now they just do. They both are going to require to do hands-on testing, and so they can do it. Now, if you've got the CTS-I, I would also recommend getting the Bixie one too. To be honest with you, have both of them, because it's like saying, okay, are you a certified mechanic on transmissions or a certified mechanic on cars? You can have both, you can have both, and I think it would give you a little bit of advantage over somebody who only has one Right. It would give you a little bit of advantage over somebody who only has one Right. It would give you that. Now they have been tightening up the practical components, making it more rigorous, harder to get the CTSI, but it's out there and I really don't think it's ever going to replace the Bixie installer program. I just don't. I just don't. I think they're complementary to each other, complementary to each other.

Speaker 2: 26:57

Next question comes from Danny Danny's, from the UK, and he said he had to take a step back. But he was approached by a union rep on site and he wants to know what are the pros and cons, working for a union workforce or a non-union workforce? And this is a great question. It truly is. Each one has its benefits, right? Let's talk about the unions. First let's talk about the pros. For the benefits. I mean the benefits for working for a union Higher wages typically. I think generally when you compare overall industry-wise, the union does pay better than non-union does. The union is also really better about training. They've got the joint apprenticeship training program. They've got low-voltage classes you can take. They're good about BICSI certification. There are many, many IBEW local halls that offer BICSI training so you can get them both.

Speaker 2: 27:52

The good news about working for a union you get protection from disputes with your boss or the owner of the company. You got some protection as far as layoffs and you know what your wages are going to be. You typically start off. If you start off fresh with no experience, you start off at one scale and each year your pay grade increases. It depends on how much where you are is what increases and which grade you try to go for. But you will know that within X amount of years you'll be making full scale and then, once you reach that full scale, the only increase you're going to get from that is because of wages or negotiation for contracts.

Speaker 2: 28:31

The pros were non-union workforces more flexibility in pay. You're going to have to negotiate for it, but you might be able to make more, and if you learn a new skill set, you might be able to get additional funds for that as well, and so it's easier to fast track promotions within a non-union company and smaller companies, smaller employees who are non-union. They're really good about long-term loyalty because you are part of the family. Big companies it's there, but it's not to the same level as it is with small companies.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Now let's talk about the cons. First, the unions. What's the bad thing about unions? A lot of them are going to be seniority-based right, meaning a brand-new member coming in may not get the same work as somebody whose tenure has been around for a while, or may not get as much hours, and there could be potential work stoppages and you're going to be the first one that's going to stop because you're the lowest on the totem pole and it could also take you longer to get recognized for merit. Now the cons for non-union right the pay is going to vary wildly Wildly, I mean, even within the company, and so you might have somebody within the company who's making a lot of money, somebody else doing the exact same thing but not making as much money because they're not as good as negotiating. That's one of the disadvantages for a non-union. You have fewer protection from disputes. Basically, if the boss doesn't like you, gone, gone.

Speaker 2: 30:13

And a lot of companies not all of them, but a lot of the non-union companies aren't as formal in their training programs. They may give somebody training here or there, but it's not widely open to anybody who wants to do it. In fact, the union's got this thing called learn while you earn. I really wish the non-union side of our industry would embrace that. I really do. There are some companies out there that do have some great training programs and want to get their employees better, but the vast majority of non-union companies. They're only going to put you through that certification if you push them for it or if they have a contract that needs for that certification, all right. So keep that in mind. That's a con for the non-union side. So if you're a skilled person, if you're a reliable person, if you want predictability, union is probably going to be the best place for you to go there.

Speaker 2: 31:04

But if you have a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit to you, you like flexibility, you like the autonomy, you like being able to be in charge of your own future, then maybe a non-union and the second part of that question from Denny says used to require manufacturer warranties on every cable job in the UK. In Canada people look at them sideways just for even asking. You know manufacturer warranty programs. The quality varies by the companies they do. The better companies are going to be offering 20-, 25-year lifetime warranties and if you use their cable and their connectivity products you will get a better system. If you stick with a company where they engineer the cable to work with the cables, you will get a better engineered position, it'll perform better and you'll get those warranties. But here's the thing A lot of those you have to be trained, you have to be accepted into the program. You've got to go through the training. Sometimes you even have to do design training. It just kind of really all depends. And a lot of times they're going to for those warranty programs they're going to want some kind of a certification right, for example, like an AEM 100, right or a fluke certifier.

Speaker 2: 32:25

Now why does warranties matter In warranties? Warranties they protect the integrity of the system. It's not just a product, you're buying into a brand. Think about like Harley when you buy a Harley you're not just buying a motorcycle, you're buying into that brand and you're buying into the performance, you're buying into the image. Same thing with manufacturing programs. You're buying into that system, you buy into that system. It's not just a customer. When you're getting into a warranty program, that it's a relationship between the manufacturer, the contractor and the end user, and when it's a relationship, people are more willing to help each other out more. They just are. So what's covered under the warranties? It just really depends on the manufacturer. Some only do defects, some only do defects, some only do materials, some only do materials and labor. It just depends Whichever one you want to hook up with, do your research first, find out what all is going to be covered and what all is not going to be covered.

Speaker 2: 33:31

There are risks of not having a manufacturer program. There are risks, right risks of not having a manufacturer program. There are risks, right. The one of the biggest risks is, if you don't have a manufacturer warranty, if something goes wrong with it, you, the contractor, you the installer, eat that cost, you eat that cost and there's no recourse if you have a product failure that causes downtime or network downtime, right. So that's what I said. That's why I tell people all the time, you know, I know they sell Cat5, ecat6, cat6a on Amazon. I know they do. Don't ever buy it right, because when you want to call up for service or call up for technical information, you're not going to be able to get a hold of anybody. And that's another place where the manufacturing program is going to stand out. You're a premium contractor, they have a working relationship with you, so that's the advantage of it. So that's how I would present that, and there are other ways. Maybe I need to do an entire show on how to sell a customer with a manufacturer warranty program. That would actually make a great show. I'm going to have to make a note of that. So that's the question.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Let me see if we have any other questions here in the TikTok thing. I didn't see any questions there. Let me flip over to the restream channel, because I wasn't really keeping an eye on those. Alrighty, so hi, play Cookie Run Kingdom on your phone and I'll donate $1,000. I eat you whatever. No, I don't play games on my phone. I just don't play games on my phone. I just don't. I got more things, better things, funner things to do than to do that. So that actually concludes tonight's show. Remember, until next time. Knowledge is power.

Speaker 1: 35:05

Thanks for listening to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power, and the low-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low voltage industry connects. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your crew. Got questions or ideas for the show? Chuck wants to hear from you. Stay connected, stay informed and always aim for excellence Until next time. And always aim for excellence Until next time. Keep those cables clean, your standards high and your future bright. Let's Talk Cabling empowering the industry, one connection at a time.