The Hidden Champions Behind Every Successful Low Voltage Project

We dive into the often-overlooked world of specification engineers and their critical role in ensuring successful low voltage infrastructure projects. Roy Chamberlain from Leviton Network Solutions shares insights on how these behind-the-scenes experts help project managers, estimators, and technicians navigate complex specifications and standards.

• Specification engineers serve as the glue between manufacturers, contractors, designers, and end-users
• They help interpret specifications, fill in gaps, and ensure all components work together seamlessly
• Many specifications contain outdated standards due to template reuse—spec engineers help keep everything current
• Manufacturers offer solution-based approaches rather than just individual products
• Future-proofing isn't necessarily more expensive—it just requires different thinking
• Technicians can directly contact spec engineers for troubleshooting and on-site challenges
• Working with established manufacturers provides access to expertise that online retailers can't match
• Spec engineers stay current with evolving standards through regular training and industry participation

Check out Leviton's website or connect with Roy Chamberlain on LinkedIn to learn more about how specification engineers can help with your next project.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Specification Engineers
• 8:15 Role and Benefits of a Spec Engineer
• 16:37 Manufacturer Resources for Better Projects
• 22:48 Solutions-Based Approach to Specifications
• 33:24 Keeping Up With Evolving Technologies
• 39:09 Supporting Technicians and Building Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys, welcome to another episode of let's Talk Cabling. Today we're diving into a topic that doesn't always get the spotlight that it deserves, but it can make or break a project. We're talking about the power specifications and the roles of specification engineers.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Welcome to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low voltage industry connects. Hosted by Chuck Bowser, rcdd. We're here to empower installers, designers and industry pros with the tips, stories and best practices you need to stay ahead. From copper to fiber, standards to innovation, this is the show that keeps you plugged into success. So grab your tools, turn up the volume and let's talk cabling.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers, technicians, project managers, estimators, customers, it personnel. We are connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind giving us a five-star rating? And if the show is not a five-star rating, then shoot me an email and let me know what I can do to make this a five-star rated show.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Wednesday nights, 6 pm Eastern Standard Time. You know that I do a live stream on TikTok, instagram, facebook, linkedin and a couple other places. I just can't think of the names off the top of my head. Well, you get to ask your favorite RCDD and you know that's me, don't even try to pretend like I'm not your questions on installation certification, design, project management. Did I say estimation? I'll say it again just in case and even career path questions. But I can hear you now, chuck, I'm driving my truck at 6 pm on Wednesday nights. I don't want to get into an accident. Relax, I record them and you can watch them at your convenience if you go to the website letstalkcablingcom. And also, while this show is free and will always remain free, if you find value in this content, would you click on that QR button right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even schedule a 15-minute one-on-one call with me, after hours, of course, where you get to answer all those questions.

Speaker 1: 2:23

I know some of you might be thinking specifications, blah. How exciting can that really be? Let's be honest, but let me tell you, the knowledge and insights that these experts can bring can transform your project from not just a good project, but to an exceptional project. I want you to imagine this You're in the middle of a massive install and a spec detail catches your eye Now. It could save your project time, it could cut costs, it might even prevent a major snag. But who's the wizard behind the curtain ensuring that every spec is not only rock solid but also aligned with the latest tech and the latest standards? That's right. It's your specifications engineer, and today we're talking to one of the best in the field.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Today, our guest is going to take us behind the scenes, into the world of showing us of how spec and engineers support from every project manager to even technicians. Help them navigate that sea of options, finding the most reliable, the most cost-effective solutions. We'll discuss how manufacturers' resources can be leveraged for better project designs who doesn't want a better design? Why estimation accuracy is not an accident it's done through due diligence and how to keep up the ever-evolving standards in connectivity and cabling. So stick around, because if you're a project manager, you might be wanting to sharpen your edge as an estimator, you might be wanting to boost your accuracy. Or if a technician, you might be facing those unpredicted on-site challenges. And for this episode today, he's going to have a little bit of something for everything.

Speaker 1: 3:58

So welcome to the show, mr Roy Chamberlain. How are you doing my friend? Very good, very good. Thank you for having me, chuck. My pleasure. So why don't you, since it's your first time on the show? Why don't you give us the 30-second view? Who is Roy and why should the audience listen to you?

Speaker 3: 4:16

Yeah, well, I'm a specification engineer for Leviton Network Solutions. I live in New Hampshire, I grew up in the industry in this area in the Boston region and, yeah, I had a contractor background for about 20 years before coming to Leviton and I spend my time supporting and educating architects, engineers, end users and supporting the local reps and just contributing all around.

Speaker 1: 4:48

My first question was to ask you was give us an overall role of I mean overall idea of what a spec engineer does, and you did a little bit there, but let's talk a bit about how do you benefit project managers and how does a spec engineer benefit estimators.

Speaker 3: 5:08

So it really depends. So, like I mentioned, I do a lot on the design and pre-design aspect but I do get pulled in for estimation and I do have contractors at times that will contact me and support there, times that will contact me and support there. And basically you know what I do is I take the information that you know that we're downloaded here at Leviton, you know, from a broad base of professionals and experts from all kinds of organizations and you know we study and understand those specifics and the products and we take solutions right. We kind of base everything, try to base everything, off of solutions and we can provide all kinds of support, including for estimation and design is, you know, cost-effective options, filling in the blanks on designs that might be incomplete and providing feedback on designs and specifications to be able to interpret exactly what the client might be looking for.

Speaker 1: 6:16

So, as a spec engineer, you might be talking to an end user, maybe an architect, maybe a contractor, all within the same day.

Speaker 3: 6:25

Then yes, that's actually usually what happens. There's very rarely a day that I don't speak with an engineer, you know, a rep, or a distribution or contractor, and in order for us to get on to the specifications, you know, the other half of my job is to work on those entities that actually put together those specifications and designs.

Speaker 1: 6:55

This wasn't one of the questions I submitted to you but I'm pretty sure you could probably answer pretty easily. Biggest complaints that I hear from estimators to technicians is and you can tell me how many? You might be able to help resolve this issue with the influence that you have. But one of the biggest complaints that I hear quite often is when they get the scope of work or the request for proposal, the RFP, how it's always wrong. And when I say wrong I mean like they list standards that are like three or four cycles old because somebody used copy and paste, or it's wrong and it doesn't meet. It might meet codes but it doesn't meet standards. So how can a spec engineer help a person like a project manager or technician solve those kinds of issues?

Speaker 3: 7:45

Yeah, well, we do that all the time and I guess we try to accomplish this from two points of view right? First of all, I do everything and my reps do everything we can to encourage engineers and consultants and end users to, you know, allow me, and you know the spec engineers, to be able to take a look at their specifications right and to write them right, to bring them up to date, to make sure they have the latest and greatest standards and to critique them, to give them feedback on, you know, the methods and standards that they have implemented, because, just like you said, I would say, a good portion of specifications that are out there and it's difficult for the engineers and consultants. They have a template and they're trying to dish out all these different details and a lot of times things get left over, right, things get left over from past and things in the templates may not get updated. So I do my best from that side to be able to have more cohesive and up-to-date specifications in the marketplace. Cohesive and up-to-date specifications in the marketplace.

Speaker 3: 9:05

But beyond that, distributors and contractors and other types of integrators, you know, will, they'll contact us and I will help them to interpret. You know, the designs that they've put together, based on right, based on the drawings and the details that they put together based on right and based on the drawings and the details that they have, I'll help them to interpret to allow them to have either a full system to add the pieces or change the pieces that don't fit together and the fill in the blank. So you know, when you read a specification, you kind of have to do that right, you have to read between the lines, right, to try to understand exactly what the client is looking for as the end solution. So we do a lot of work. There's so many, it's such a broad spectrum, but in a nutshell, that's how it works. Let's take a short break.

Speaker 4: 10:04

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Speaker 1: 10:51

I get why using templates is so attractive because we're getting asked to do more and more in less and less time, and when I used to be an estimator for a large contractor, I used templates all the time, but it was a bullet plate. It was a bullet plate and we always updated the code and standards on that, and then it was up to us to go through and make sure that we deleted out the section that didn't apply, changed the section that did apply, but that puts the onus on making sure that you I hate to say this proofread it, prove it before you send it, because nothing will destroy a technician's or project manager's feeling in the field that this is a good design. If you're referencing a code that's three cycles old it's not even applied in that stadium or a standard.

Speaker 1: 11:39

That's the A version of the standard we're now up to like the E version of the standard Right that doesn't just harbor, you know, a feeling of, well, this is a great design if they're referencing all this old stuff, Right? So yeah, if you're using bullet plates, I get it Absolutely. Just proofread it. Or ask a spec engineer, like we're here to just make sure hey, make sure. It's lazy and it's hard to do because they're always changing around. So the manufacturers, all the big manufacturers, they have resources to help improve projects and designs and stuff like that, to make sure that whoever the estimator, the project manager, selects the most cost-effective or most reliable solution. What are some of those resources that contractors or, remember, these might be contractors who might be from a real small company to a large company? What are some of those resources that contractors or these might be contractors who might be from a real small company to a large company? What are some of the resources that are available out there that they can use to make their jobs better?

Speaker 3: 12:31

Right.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Well, from a spec engineer standpoint, one of the things that we have that that helps the most. So you know, you mentioned kind of those those large boilerplates right that were multiple pages long and they have 100 options and you have to. You're constantly deleting, right, you know. And then you know, and when you proofread the same thing you know after, before every project, before it goes out, you know it can it can all blur a little bit, right. So I think that's a tall order, right. So it kind of creates a situation where mistakes can kind of show up pretty easily. So one of the resources we have and I'm sure other manufacturers and other entities in the industry have are solutions. So one of the things that we've done so I was on the spec writing team and I was responsible for the US-based solutions, right. So we had one engineer who was doing the product specs and another engineer that was focusing on international and I was doing the solution. So I'd take those product specs and create the full solutions, right.

Speaker 3: 13:50

And one of the things that we did that we've changed differently over the years is getting very specific as much as possible with each specification. So instead of having one big boilerplate, now we're basing on solutions. So what technology are you trying to? You know, what throughput do you need, what technologies, what applications are going to be run over your network? Right, and so we have a category six, let's say a standard. We'll have an enhanced category 6A standard that will focus on high category 6A standard that will focus on high technology, high POE. You know things like that and you know, in the end. So not only do we have those templates that we try to share and allow engineers, you know, to kind of cannibalize that or to use them themselves, but we also have these solution briefs and solution sheets.

Speaker 3: 14:45

So one of the things Leviton has done, you know, within the last couple of years is we've created some global systems called Millennium, and they're systems that are from, you know, top to bottom cable, jacks, panels, all the different entities that go within that system, and they're global. So, let's say, you're in touch with a global client. You know that's a good piece that can be used, but we also also just for the fact of having all the details in there. So you know, oh hey, this part goes with this part in order to accomplish this throughput, this level of PoE. You know all those types of things and the same thing on the fiber side, you know, and same thing on there.

Speaker 3: 15:33

So we really try to start with to gain, or if an end user or a project manager has the information as far as what they're trying to accomplish, as far as the types of devices and applications. You know we have solutions for all those things, but I really like the solution sheets that we create and the documents that we have for there. We have it for a whole array of our different types of products and that's a great resource to make sure that you have all the little pieces that are included in there.

Speaker 1: 16:10

And see, you know there's a portion of my audience because I reach a lot of people. There's a portion of my audience that you know. They're small companies. They were techs in the field and they decided they want to hang their shingle out there and they want to be their own company. And kudos to them. I never tried to do that. But the thing is they get their supplies and their materials from, like Amazon. And my point is, if you stick with one of the big manufacturers, they have all the support structure out there for you. So again, like spec engineers and stuff like that, because if you call up Amazon and say, hey, can you help me design a data center, you know what you're going to get. Nothing, there's going to be silence, right. So are all of the spec engineers I mean, are they all? Are they like doctors? Do they have specialties? Or are all the spec engineers kind of like a generalist?

Speaker 3: 17:06

and then there's maybe like a specialist that you might go to for, maybe like data center stuff, so a little ofs right spaces that are going to need that infrastructure and all our spec engineers. We have to understand that to a point. But there's, you know, one of the things you know on top of speaking to engineers and reps and contractors on a daily basis. I don't think there's a day that goes by that I don't talk to. You know, one of our product managers or one of our applications engineers or one of my fellow spec engineers, and I know who to call for, whichever specialty it is. So, yes, like you said, there could be. So for data centers.

Speaker 3: 18:11

There's certain aspects of data centers that I understand very well. I spent thousands of hours in data centers, certain aspects I have a really good feel for. But then there's other technologies or newer technologies. You know we're up here in the Northeast, up in the Northeast we're not building. There's not a lot of space, right that could you know. Electricity is expensive and things like that. You get a lot of those bigger data centers, let's say in the Southwest, northwest, you know in that area. So you know I might contact one of them for specific aspects if I see some similarity. And, just like you said, we have our applications engineering department, our customers and reps, you know, basically can use that through customer service, but we use that as well and there are specific engineers, right professionals and experts that accommodate all those different entities, whether it be an extended distance requirement, whether it be residential right or data center or any other type of, you know, specific area.

Speaker 1: 19:24

Do manufacturers charge for this added value?

Speaker 3: 19:29

No, so we do not do the work of, let's say, an engineer or a consultant. We're really supplemental. In general, we think of our specification engineering team as kind of the glue that kind of brings everything together right, you know everybody the business enough at least to be able to kind of fill the gaps, and that's what I really think is important. You know you had mentioned a resource or the benefit of using a larger firm. You know I see all of the quotes that come in and I try to take a look at, you know, every quote that comes in, especially if I, if I notice that it's, you know, from certain clients or things like that. And and if I see, you know I'll, I'll take a peek at these, these documents just to just to see, hey, you know, how do these things fit together Right? Are they missing something? Does something not match up? You know that way. You know, hey, maybe the representative can reach out to the contractor or whoever's quoting that and just make sure that they're, you know, they're not making a mistake up front.

Speaker 3: 20:54

And that happens a lot internally. You know we have internal kind of safeguards for, like, our OneReach system and for MTP, mpo, when those types of things come in. We see a lot of that. I'll tell you if a spec engineer is not involved, you know there's a pretty significant percentage of bills and materials that come in to get priced that don't match up. You know whether it be polarity, whether it be. You know the gender on the MTPs. You know whether it be the matching up of the actual performance level. So there's a lot of different things that get covered there when we can.

Speaker 4: 21:41

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Speaker 1: 22:21

I see a great value there because when I used to be an SMR Now let's get back to the podcast I see a great value there because when I used to be in Esmer our office was we partnered with a large manufacturer. It wasn't left in with somebody else. And even though we partnered with them a lot, I still wasn't so familiar with their product line that I could tell you okay, well, if you're putting in these types of jacks, you have to use those kinds of phase plates and stuff like that. And that's where the value of having someone like a spec engineer being able to kind of look over that. If an estimator puts out a bid or sends a price to a distribution, can they request that a spec engineer look over it?

Speaker 3: 23:07

Well, all pricing, you know, will come through the representatives, right? So they'll have an inside person. And, yes, yes, they can, and that happens A lot of times it will come from the inside salesperson, you know. They'll say hey, can you look at this? They're looking for an alternative for this product, right? Or they're looking for, they want to see that this is what they're trying to accomplish. Can you guys take a look at what they've come up with and let us know if there's a better way to do it, right? So, yes, that does happen.

Speaker 1: 23:45

You know you bring up a great point. See, it's funny because when guests are talking my mind, you know, not only is it thinking about the next question, it's also thinking about what you're saying. So if you see smoke coming out of my ears it's because my brain's in overload. But you know, you actually brought up something that one time that I used was we had gotten a bid and it was for it was a federal government job, because at the time I was an estimator in DC and it was spec'd out a different manufacturer than we were aligned with. So you would think, oh well, great, I can't, I can't bid that right, because they're just picking out.

Speaker 1: 24:20

You know xyz manufacturer, not abc manufacturer. But in most of your government bids, especially the federal government bids, there's this term in there that says or equivalent. Okay, great, but I'm not. You know I spec ABC manufacturer, not XYZ. So I don't know which parts XYZ directly correlate with manufacturer ABC, because I'm having a hard time keeping up with my manufacturer, not the other four out there. Is that something they can rely on a spec engineer to do?

Speaker 3: 24:52

Yes, the unique part about using a spec engineer is we might be able to provide a different angle that might provide value add right. So a lot of times when people do equals you know distributors I'm sure that they have their own lists, right, and a lot of manufacturers will have a list oh, this jack equals this jack, right, and this cable equals this cable. This jack equals this jack right and this cable equals this cable. But when you get, when you drill down to solution-based right and you try to accommodate other things that are just more important than just the jack and more important than just the cable, right, it's the whole entity. So, and it depends, it depends what kind of you know, when you mentioned small contractors, a lot of small contractors gain their success and start their businesses because they have relationships right. And when you have a relationship, you know, sometimes you can take things to another level.

Speaker 3: 25:53

I mean I always think that when I work with any of the end users that I work with or I mean it doesn't matter if it's a contractor, end user whoever I'm working with, I always consider myself to be part of their team, right? I'm part of their business success. I'm part of the same team, right. So I'm trying to think from their perspective and do things according to how it's going to benefit them in the long run, but also the end user, right. And so there can be a lot of added value to, you know, full solutions. Full solutions that have, you know, contractor training programs and warranties.

Speaker 3: 26:36

But beyond just the jack and the cable, hey, maybe they want it to be US made. Maybe they're looking for solutions that are green, that have green initiatives or sustainability, right, you know, maybe they're looking to work with an organization that prioritizes, you know, carbon neutral and green initiatives, and maybe they're looking for a solution that they can spread across beyond the United States, right. So a solution where, hey, I can have consistency and you talked about it, chuck we're asked to do more and more right With fewer people, right and less time, to do more and more right with fewer people right in less time. So a lot of these IT management group or facilities groups welcome a solution that can spread across the globe, with really minor tweaks that are necessary when you go into the different regions.

Speaker 1: 27:33

Yep. So you know, if you listen to my podcast more than oh, I don't know two episodes, you've probably heard me say our industry changes at the speed of light.

Speaker 3: 27:44

Right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:45

And that's the absolute truth. I mean, just look at all the stuff coming down the pike that we've got coming down, which means there's always evolving new technologies, new standards and stuff like that. How can a spec engineer keep updated on all those advancements?

Speaker 3: 28:06

Yeah, so those are the people that are behind me and the rest of us. So we have a US spec team and we have a global spec team. We're all part of the same team first of all, and we have a global spec team. We're all part of the same team first of all, so we interact with spec engineers that are out of Europe and other areas, but we also have professionals that are on the TIA boards and they go to the different meetings and get downloaded on this information, right, and so what they do is they download us.

Speaker 3: 28:39

So we meet with product management on a regular basis. We meet, the spec engineer team, meets ourselves weekly at a minimum. We'll spend days, sometimes studying and being taught, studying and being taught up-to-date technologies for things like AI, data center and extended distance, 5G and wireless and all the different technologies and all the latest standards, and we usually know what standards are going to be coming out right before, before most people. So that's what I really try to do is is, when I meet with my engineers, I try to educate them on on what's coming up. You know, because you know it doesn't matter if you're a contractor or an engineer or a distributor or what entity you are. Our number one goal is to try to not make a mistake right.

Speaker 1: 29:39

We don't want to make a mistake. I think that's every estimator's goal too.

Speaker 3: 29:42

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 29:43

You know, it's not to make a mistake. So, you know, I try to use that leverage you know, of the information that we're given and all the information that's spread throughout our team to be able to give that incentive, to maintain, you know, a close, consistent communication with all the people that I support, you know, in my region and outside of my region, because I want them to be successful, right, and it's very easy when you think about it, when a design is put together, the pre-design, when we're starting to think about, okay, they're digging dirt and they're starting to decide what kind of technology they want to put in the building. By the time that technology gets in that building, I don't care if it's a K through 12 school, right, you know, you're talking 18 months, sometimes multiple years, right? So you know, we need to understand what that migration path is, right? So, okay, is this technology going to be obsolete by the time the students come into their school, right? You know, or the people come into their building or into their data center.

Speaker 3: 31:04

Are the pathways? Are the? You know, is there a migration path to be able to accommodate the newer technologies? And you know, I've always believed, even when I was on the contractor side, that it's not always. It's not even usually. It's not always more expensive to plan for the future. It's just a different way of you have to just think differently, right? You have to think in that format in order to allow it to happen.

Speaker 1: 31:33

You bring up a great point because as an estimator I was always trying to adhere to the standards which talks about future proofing and stuff like that, and you see this conversation light up social media all the time. You see people saying, well, why should I put in Cat6A when Cat6 is just fine? Nobody out there has 10 gig equipment. If you estimate a project let's say putting in 100 cables and they're Cat 6, and then you re-estimate that exact same project putting in Cat 6A, it's not double the price.

Speaker 1: 32:06

You're only really looking at the difference between the cost of the cable and the cost of the connectivity products, which I want to say it's been a while since I've estimated, but I seem to remember it being 15%, maybe, maybe 20% at the most. And it's a lot easier to pull cable during new construction as opposed to pulling cable six years down the road. When you're in a call center and there's people making calls trying to do sales and you're trying to open up ceiling tiles above people's head, well you know what. That labor is not going to be the same as it was on a new construction site. So future-proofing is a really good thing. We were talking about accuracy as estimators and one of my when I was an estimator, one of the, whenever I get the phone call. You know what I'm talking about when I say the phone call right.

Speaker 1: 32:53

The first thing that would go through my mind uh-oh, what'd I miss? So accuracy is a huge priority, especially because, again, a lot of people listening to the show are smaller companies where one small mistake could really bankrupt their company. So how can working with a large manufacturer improve the accuracy of those takeoffs and maybe even the labor estimates?

Speaker 3: 33:19

Yeah, well, you know, I mean in general, it's, it's the response. You know the the, the contractor has the responsibility. The engineer or contractor. Sometimes, you know specs come out with counts in them, right, but you know in the end, if, if you're counting triangles, right, you know that's, that's the responsibility of the estimator.

Speaker 3: 33:43

Now, when I was on the contractor side, you know I would usually, especially for larger projects, have things proofread, you know. So, hey, this guy went through all these drawings. Why don't we have someone else go through those drawings, right, and double check manufacturer standpoint? Like I said, there's, you know, if you send a bill of materials in, there isn't much that we're going to do besides, take a look and see if anything stands out right, because we get dozens of quotes a day. You know hundreds right, sometimes, and you know everybody has their purpose.

Speaker 3: 34:27

But if there were, if the request is is asked for um, and again, you know, uh, hey, can you take a look at this? You know what, what do you think about this solution based on this spec and these drawings? Um, well, that's definitely something that I've done for for people. Uh and um, if, if I were on that contractor side, I would want, yeah, the most knowledgeable person to be to kind of look over and proofread what I've put together. You know, it usually doesn't take as long when somebody's done all the work. Now you're just making sure that it makes sense, right.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Let me ask you another question Again. This is not one of our regular questions, but I'm pretty sure you can answer this one too. A lot of the smaller companies again, they might be a Bixie installer F, installer C, they might be a Bixie technician they're starting their own company. At first, their first year or two, they're rocking and rolling because they're doing veterinary offices and small stuff like that, and then all of a sudden they get their first opportunity for a I don't want to say it doesn't have to be a big contract, but let's just say a big, big customer. And a lot of times they'll say something like the prints have to be stamped by an RCDD. Right? Are spec engineers RCDDs? That's the first question. And the follow-up to that is is that something that a spec engineer would do for a contractor?

Speaker 3: 35:54

So we would not do that for a contractor. So, again, trying to separate those pieces, because when something gets stamped by an RCDD, you know, when something gets stamped by an RCDD, generally it's part of that contractor process, right? So we try to keep ourselves in between the engineers, the contractors, the distributors, end users, rather than too much on one, you know, get too much involved, right, because now, now it just well. First of all, that's not how we're set up, right, and that's that's not our role. But as far as spec engineers being RCDDs, yes, yes, for the most part, a spec engineer is going to be an RCDD. If they're not an RCDD already, they're in training for one and it's going to be an MBO. You know, it's going to be a business objective for them to meet, you know, within their first year, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 36:57

Absolutely. I don't want to forget about the technicians, right? We talked about project managers and estimators, but the technician on the ground they're the ones who encounter unforeseen challenges during the install, right? So can a technician utilize these same resources that we've been talking about?

Speaker 3: 37:13

Yes, I mean, as a matter of fact, there are times when I'll be talking to you know the person, to the person, to the person, and I'll say you know, have the technician call me, right, you know? I mean, it seems like nobody understands what the problem or what the solution is. So have the technician, give me a call directly and I might be able to answer them. And that's the same thing that we do with our customer service. So when you call into customer service, which has nothing to do with the spec engineers, but at Leviton, you know our customer service department, you know they nothing to do with the spec engineers, but at Leviton, our customer service department, they want to talk to the people on the ground who are there, right, they want to get as much detail, especially if it's a concern or something where it seems like there's a Leviton solution or product that's not accommodating something or it's not working.

Speaker 3: 38:06

Because there's two reasons One reason we want to know if there's an issue with our solution or our product, right, but on top of that we have to be able to identify and we don't want to waste anybody's time. So, absolutely, I give my card out to technicians and they're welcome to call me at any time. I always tell them that, um, I spent a lot of time, uh, being the the last one in line to. You know, if nobody could figure it out, you know I I had to do, I had to do that. So I have a lot of good experience with that um you know, a lot of people don't get that, roy.

Speaker 1: 38:41

I mean a lot of people. I don't want to say it's because somebody's, somebody's gonna take this wrong, but a lot of people especially. There's always this us versus them mentality, people in the field versus the people back in the office. But people tend to look down on technicians. Right, for whatever reasons. It's wrong. I'm telling you, right, it's wrong. But I'll tell you now, your technicians are your next project managers, your next estimators. So you know, you set yourself relationships right. So you might be giving your cards out to technicians because you meet them at a Bixie conference or whatever, and so they see the value. Hey, if I can keep in touch with this guy, he can help me with the design for whatever. But when that guy becomes a project manager or an estimator or maybe even a you know, not an office manager, but an operations manager, invest in relationships, right? So last question what are three questions that you think that a contractor should be asking a manufacturer? But they often overlook it and overlook it.

Speaker 3: 39:49

Definitely the solution, right, you know the full solution. A lot of times the questions we're asked are specific on just one entity. But you really should be asking your manufacturer. You know what's the full solution. And again, I can't speak for all the manufacturers or all the people, but you know, if we're given the information that you're looking for to accomplish, you know, is it cost, is it technology? Whatever, I think the full solution, if you're talking about responding to a bid or creating a job, is one question. The other is what's the latest technology? What are people putting in out there, right? So I'm talking to.

Speaker 3: 40:49

You know I'm in a pretty broad region, right, you know I go all the way from. I cover all of New England, all of upstate, new York and Pittsburgh, right, and I interact and I'm involved with projects that are all over the country and sometimes all over the world. So, being able to understand, hey, what technology is out there? What are people putting in? Are they putting in Wi-Fi 5? Are they putting in 6, wi-fi 6E? Which direction are they going in with technology? And the third question would be you know how can I be more successful with, you know, obtaining end users, right, being the contractor for a large university or a large medical conglomerate right, or a large manufacturer, whatever it is. You know we spend a lot of time again, that's the work that we do and we align with our contractors and we want them to be able to have success, just like you mentioned the technician. The technician is the face right.

Speaker 1: 42:02

They're the ones that that's the person that the customer sees. That's the person that the customer sees.

Speaker 3: 42:06

They see them the most. So, and the same thing with the contractor. You know, sometimes I'll see people get frustrated because they say, oh well, we did all this and we're better this way, we're better that way. But it's like, well, if our contractors aren't talking to us about how they're going to be successful and acquire end users, well, you know, then, then that doesn't, that doesn't help us either way. You know what I mean. So it's a that one helps both people, right, and I think vice versa. You know, I mean, if, if I know a contractor that's successful at a, at a at a certain end user or a client that I want to get involved, when I'm involved with, I want to ask them hey, how can I be successful here? You're successful here, how can I be successful here? And I think it goes both ways.

Speaker 1: 42:56

Yeah, so if someone wants to get a hold of you, roy, how do?

Speaker 3: 42:59

they get a hold of you. Oh well, you can go right onto our website and I'm on LinkedIn, so you can always search me on LinkedIn. Roy Chamberlain, I'm an RCDD. I'm available on LinkedIn and on our website. So, depending on where you live, you know, you can click on our website and go to the resources area and you'll be able to get in touch with you. Know, get the contact with a local spec engineer.

Speaker 1: 43:33

So if somebody's listening, like in California, you wouldn't be their spec engineer, but you could certainly put them in touch with their spec engineer, correct?

Speaker 3: 43:37

Correct, there you go Right. So basically, you get connected with the you know representative or spec engineer, you know whatever is necessary to you know to get what you need accomplished, and we work as a team. So that's the whole thing. The representatives we're definitely a very closely knit group.

Speaker 1: 43:58

Roy, I appreciate you coming on the show and helping preach the word, because I tell contractors all the time Amazon's okay if you want to buy dog food, but if you want to buy a connectivity product and cabling, you really need to go through distribution, you really need to partner with one of the larger manufacturers, because there's way more value there than just you know can you get it by. One of the things I hear all the time is we bought this cable off of Amazon and then when I look at the box it says CCA. Oops, yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:31

Well.

Speaker 1: 44:31

Speck and G will keep you from making that mistake. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:36

Just one thing on that. I don't know if you know, but there's also products that are labeled as certain manufacturers, that are copies.

Speaker 1: 44:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:46

And that's the kind of stuff you can run into there. But yeah, it's all about wanting to be successful and and and make your job easier, just like you. You've said this whole time, chuck, you know where we are free resources, right, I mean you and I, I mean we're. We're providing education and knowledge and feedback. We're interacting with hundreds of contractors and people in the industry. So reach out whenever we can help your job to be more successful or easier.

Speaker 2: 45:20

Thanks for listening to let's Talk Cabling, the award-winning podcast where knowledge is power and the low low voltage industry connects. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your crew. Got questions or ideas for the show? Chuck wants to hear from you. Stay connected, stay informed and always aim for excellence. Until next time, keep those cables clean, your standards high and your future bright. Let's Talk Cabling empowering the industry, one connection at a time.