Mastering Salary Negotiation After Certification AHL

Ever wondered how a certification like the RCDD could transform your career trajectory? On this episode of After Hours Live, I, Chuck Bowser, share personal insights on using professional credentials to boost your salary and open new doors. Tune in as I recount my own journey with the RCDD certification, the job offers it brought, and why I ultimately chose to stay loyal to my employer, leading to a well-deserved promotion. You’ll gain practical advice on aligning your personal growth with company goals and learn why sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

We tackle the art of negotiating a salary raise post-certification, offering strategies whether your new credentials were self-funded or company-sponsored. Discover how to effectively communicate your value in both small and large company settings, and how documenting your contributions can build a compelling case for a raise. Humility is key, and I emphasize the importance of framing your request in terms of added value to the organization rather than entitlement, all while keeping an eye on future opportunities if an immediate raise isn't feasible.

The episode also explores the critical balance between street-smart skills and formal qualifications in today's fast-paced industry. Hear the humorous side of project management challenges and why maintaining practical, hands-on skills is just as vital as any credential. Whether you're sipping your favorite drink or strategizing your next career move, this episode promises a blend of humor, insight, and actionable tips to help you navigate the complexities of career advancement in the ever-evolving tech landscape.

Chapters

• 0:00 After Hours Live With Chuck Bowser
• 2:39 Negotiating Salary After Certifications
• 17:21 Earning a Raise Through Self-Investment
• 30:00 The Value of Professional Certifications
• 33:38 The Importance of Street Smart Skills

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Wednesday night, 6 pm, eastern Standard Time. You know what time that must be Time for After Hours Live with Chuck Bowser, rcdd Bixie Technician yes, where you get to ask your favorite RCDD your questions on installation, design, certification, project management, even career path. Welcome to this hour's live. No, no, go away, I'm still learning this new system. Hold on, go to preview. There we go, there we go, still learning this new system. I should be broadcasting on TikTok, instagram, facebook, linkedin, youtube and the whole wide web.

Speaker 1: 0:45

You might have noticed I've been absent for a while there. Well, it was over a month and that's because Hurricane Milton yes, hurricane Milton flooded out the neighborhood and having all kinds of problems. I'm just now getting back to doing live sessions. So tonight I only have two questions, two questions, but I'm going to dive deep into both those questions. So we're probably going to burn up our 30 minutes, right? So? But you know, if you gave, you should have got.

Speaker 1: 1:18

We always got to start off with what are you drinking? Chuck is drinking ginger ale, zevia ginger ale my favorite mixed with water, of course, half and half. I like a little bit of carbonation. I don't like a lot of bit of carbonation. Make sure to tell us in the chat box and in the thing below what are you drinking tonight? What are you drinking tonight? Also, you drinking tonight? Also, you can buy me a cup of coffee. You can visit my Linktree account. Go to my webpage, letstalkingcom. You'll find all those links there.

Speaker 1: 1:52

The acronym challenge for tonight is DAS, das. What is DAS? What is that? Does anybody know? I'll give you some Jeopardy. Theme music Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do a show on desks. So lots of good reasons.

Speaker 1: 2:24

Let me see here. Am I on Twitch? No, I am not. I am on TikTok. I am on TikTok. I should be broadcasting live there too. If you can go, check and let me know. Make sure, because according to my software it's going out to TikTok.

Speaker 1: 2:39

He's from Centennial Pennsylvania. Welcome, zach Zap. Hi, al, I'm from Pennsylvania. Where is Centennial Pennsylvania? I've never heard of that one before. Never heard of that one before.

Speaker 1: 2:53

So let's get into our two questions. Like I said, they're going to be pretty pretty deep questions and I'm going to be referring to my notes. So if you happen to see, hmm, hmm, hmm, you know what I opened up, the wrong document. Don't you hate when that happens? No, this is live on the air. That's what happens. Docsgooglecom, so I can see my show notes. How do you spell Google? Anybody know? Can you tell them how to practice? And doing live streams? Oops, I am, I am so okay.

Speaker 1: 3:25

So the first question came to me via TikTok and the person's name was user 6943872.5, 1 3⁄4, 68492z. Yeah, I don't get it, but hey. So the question he asked me was chuck, I'm looking to getting in my getting my rcdd. Congratulations, don't put it off, man. They just came out with the 15th edition. You got two years, three years, till they go to the 16th edition, and every time they come out with a new edition that comes out with more pages. So so good luck for you and if you need tips, give me a holler. Also, he says I am in the, I am the Midwest and I've been in the field for 28 years 28 years, so that's a good, substantial amount of time.

Speaker 1: 4:16

How do you negotiate a salary or hourly wage once you get your certificate? Now, that's a great question, because there's a lot of people that get their installer copper and their installer fiber, their Bixie technician, their CFOT, their CCNA, their Bixie RCDD right and they want to go ahead and get a bump in their salary for that, and that's a natural response. It truly is. So my response is going to apply to whether you got any one of those things. Now here's the thing. It can be kind of tricky because it really varies on the type of company that you are working with and whether you were paid whether you paid for that certification or the company paid for that certification. So we're going to have to come to this from a couple different scenarios. So hopefully one of these will apply to you and if you have suggestions, put them in the chat box as well.

Speaker 1: 5:11

So negotiating your salary or maybe even your hourly wage after you're getting certified is one of the most important conversations that you can have in your career. So don't take it lightly. You know practice looking in the mirror. Practice with your career. So don't take it lightly. You know practice looking in the mirror. Practice with your spouse. Don't let the first time you have this conversation with your boss be the first time you talk about this. Work out the kinks in your conversation first.

Speaker 1: 5:36

I'm a firm believer in prepping, prepping, prepping, because a certification not only does it boost your skills, but it also increases your value that you bring to the company. Now here's the thing. Here's the thing that people get confused with a lot. Let's say that you get your RCD 28 years Good, and you get your RCDD. When people look at your salary they're going to ask you how many years do you have as an RCDD? Because you know what? Somebody who has one year at their RCDD is not going to be as talented or as in-depth as somebody who has 30 years as an RCDD. So keep that in mind. But it is fair. It is fair if you want that to reflect in your pay. You know you got your certification. There's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1: 6:28

So let's go over a few different scenarios and each one of these, excuse me, are going to require a little bit of a different approach. First I want to talk about okay, you're working for a small company. You know, not every low-voltage company out there is Vision Technologies or Henkels and McCoy or IES, right, not everyone's big companies like that. There are smaller companies that might have. You know the first company I worked for, custom computer cable and, and at the time they were in Arlington, virginia, but now they're in Chantilly. When I worked for them he literally had five techs and I was one of those five techs. I was one of the original five small companies.

Speaker 1: 7:07

So now, for those who work for a small company, there may not be a formal structure for raises or promotions, and it's going to be key to approach that conversation thoughtfully. This is why I said earlier, you really want to think about what you're going to say before you go in there and say because you're going to be nervous as all can be talking to talking to your boss and Bob, don't go in there, boss, I got my RCD, how much money are you going to give me? You know that's probably not a good thing to do, probably not a good thing to do. You know small businesses. The thing with small businesses, right, is they don't always pay you as much as a big company, but they really value loyalty, loyalty. So it's a good idea to make sure that you frame your discussion in a way that's going to emphasize your commitment to that company and how your certification is going to directly benefit their operations. Doesn't this conversation sound kind of familiar? Because I always tell people right, if you want to talk a customer into doing what they want to do, explain to them how their decision is going to cost them more money. So this sounds very familiar, doesn't it? So find a way to explain to your boss or whoever maybe it's HR, because not all small companies have HRs. Explain to them well, look, by having my Bixie technician certification, we might get the opportunity to bid more bids. Because I am certified as an RCDD, you might be able to fulfill certain types of contract obligations. Explain to them how your certification is going to help them. Now, when you approach your manager, or maybe even the owner of the company, explain how those new skills are going to help you take on more responsibility. Here's a hint pro tip number one for the night Try to take when you're talking about taking on more responsibility, try to pick a responsibility that your boss is doing. Say, look, I can do that for you, because they will appreciate that you're taking a little bit of their load off of them and they might be more willing to have a conversation about more money. So how are you going to take on more money? How you might reduce the need for outsourcing A lot of smaller companies because they may not have an RCDD on staff when they go after some of these bigger contracts.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Those bigger contracts might say oh, these prints have to be reviewed by an RCDD. Oh, there has to be an RCDD on site and if there's nobody in the company that has that credential, they got to maybe subcontract somebody to come do that. So if you can do that, you're going to save that company money right. Point out the direct value that you're bringing, because small companies are very conscious of cost and productivity. You know, what you might want to do is, if you have the ability to do this, try to think about the number of times that your company's again, this is a small company the number of times your small company might have had to bring somebody in because of their certification. How many hours did they log against the company? When did they build the company? And then what was that? Over a year, and then that could be your basis for negotiations. Look, you know, hey, we'd have an RCD come in over four projects over the last year and it cost us, you know, $8,000. How about we talk about a pay raise of $5,000 because I got my RCD? Now You're saving the company $3,000. And they're going to be more willing to have that conversation if you show a way that you can help them save money because it's a small company.

Speaker 1: 10:57

Small companies they're great to work for, they're nimble, they can change directions quickly. But they're also man. One wrong move with a small company could put that company out of business. Put that company out of business right. And if they can't offer the full amount, you know, oh, we can't afford that then maybe ask about other incentives that they can provide. Hey, how about giving me a company vehicle to drive to and from every day? Or how about maybe some additional PTO? So those kinds of things can help. Or here's a good one Because you've gotten more skills, because you've gotten better at what you're doing. How about performance-based bonuses? If I bring this project in under budget, because now I got my CFOA, because I know how to terminate fiber quickly and efficiently, and I got it under budget, let's talk about a performance-based bonus. Think outside the box. Think outside the box. What do you do if you work for a large company? I already mentioned a few of them already. There's lots of them out there.

Speaker 1: 12:04

At a larger company, the structure for getting pay raises is probably going to be a little bit more defined, so your best strategy is to work within that existing framework. So, for example, my day job right now. We're currently filling out our performance evaluations and I know you know within a month or two or three, if I've done a good job, chuck will get a pat on the back and Chuck will get a raise Right. So think about that. So, maybe, maybe, maybe. If you get your, your RCD, your your CFO, your big C tech, your OSP, credential and you know, and you know that you're going to, you know, doing your performance evaluations and getting pay raises in three months, four months, five months, instead of asking for it right away, start laying the groundwork, start thinking about what you want to say, start thinking about those additional responsibilities you can do, think about the ways that you can save that company money. So you got X amount of days, weeks or months to think about this. So that way, when you go in and you're loaded for bear right, large companies often will have established pay bands and race cycles, especially if that company is tied to the unions. So sometimes the unions, those companies, will have specific pay raises for different timing stuff. So keep that in mind and I already mentioned about the timing right Check to see when that evaluation or those salary adjustments are typically happening. You already know pretty much if you're working for a large company when they do those evaluations, when they do those raises.

Speaker 1: 13:35

So again, present your case by showing how your certification aligns with the company goals. And I have yet to come across a company, yet to come across a company that having somebody with a credential like you know CFOT, bixi Tech, installer, copper Installer, fiber, rcdd, osp how that does not align with company goals. But if you have a company initiative, a few years back I was talking to a friend of mine and his company wanted to start doing data centers. Years back I was talking to a friend of mine and his company wanted to start doing data centers. So he went out and got his DCDC certification and told the company look, I got the certification. You guys are pursuing this, trying to identify more data center customers, more data center projects next year. I've got the certification that's going to help us to be able to do that kind of work. You see how this works out. Now You've got to go in there and show how it's a three words. Three words you always want to remember Mutually beneficial relationship.

Speaker 1: 14:37

It's not a one-way street. It's not about how much money you can make. It's not about how much money the company makes. It's got to be a mutually beneficial relationship. You're going to lose your job. You will lose your job Right.

Speaker 1: 14:52

So keep in mind, larger companies are also typically going to be more critical, more evaluative in measurable results. Measurable results that's why I kind of pointed out earlier if you can try to find out how much they paid to have that RCD on staff and before, and how much it costs and how much you can save them if you give you raise or because you got your RCD now right. So there's, there's a way to do this. Highlight how your, how your past contributions and your new skill sets are going to make an impact. That's going to be the ideal way to do that. Additionally, you might also want to even ask about developmental policies that might entitle you to an automatic increase for certification. I have seen I've never worked for a company like this, but I had friends that worked for companies like that that if you got your RCDD, bam, you automatically got a $3,000 a year raise. So check, they may already have that and if they don't, maybe suggest that they do. You'd be surprised how many company policies are instituted because an employee suggested helped shape those company policies.

Speaker 1: 16:06

The next scenario how do you ask for a raise if your company paid for that training, paid for that certification. Oh, this is going to be a delicate one because when the company invests in you, in the training and the travel and expenses to go to that class and the exam fees, they're going to expect a return on their investment. That's why a lot of times the company is going to ask you to sign a training agreement, meaning if you leave before X amount of time, you owe us back a certain dollar of the training that we gave you, and it's usually prorated. You know a hundred percent it. You know for the first quarter, maybe 80% for the second quarter, and it kind of piddles its way down to finally gets to zero. They want a return on their investment, even though they're a big company, even though they may have deep pockets. That manager's performance is evaluated on how efficiently and how cost efficiently they can run their department. So a good manager is always going to be watching what they do. So again, customer paid for that training. Just because the customer paid for your training does not mean that you should not ask for a raise Again.

Speaker 1: 17:21

The key here is to frame that request in terms of additional value. Do not, do not come from a position of entitlement. Well, I got my RCDDD, you got to pay me, you got to pay me. No, be humble. Be humble, that's going to be the best approach. Make sure you approach that conversation with gratitude. Always start off with hey, thank you so much for paying for me to do this certification. Man, I feel so much. I feel fulfilled because I reached one of my goals, my career goals and stuff, and thank you so much for your investment in my growth. I appreciate that you see that there's something within me that's worth investing in and I love that. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 18:03

But explain to them that you are eager to apply those new skills that you learned. Because those skills actually start to develop before you get your RCDD, because you're studying for three, six months, 12 months before you actually pass the test. So you start learning stuff beforehand so you can actually show a track record. So show them how your new skills and benefits have benefited the company If you start. You know I have a rule of 147 pro tips and pro tip number one is document, document, document. So if you started studying and you know that, okay, I'm going to take my test in six months, eight months, nine months, a year, whatever.

Speaker 1: 18:45

As you start going through the TDMM and you start reading and you start learning and all that stuff, then what you want to do is, if you meet with a customer and because you're studying before you got your actual certification, because you're studying, you help the customer solve a problem, write that down. If you help your boss or somebody solve an issue, well, hey, we need to put them in a conduit. How many 90-degree bends can we have? Well, the two 90-degree bends. An individual bend can be more than 90 degrees, you can have three. If the total run length of the conduit is less than 100 feet, or if one of those bends is within 12 inches of the feet, write that down so that way, when you go in, you can say, look, hey, over the last eight, nine months, I didn't get my certification until two weeks ago, but look, just from me studying, from me investing in myself, or from you investing in me, because right now we're talking about, the company pays for it. I was able to help the company in these ways Because, trust me, if you don't write it down, if you don't document it, it didn't happen.

Speaker 1: 19:47

Your boss has a lot of stuff on their plate. They're not going to remember everything that you've done. It's up to you to document that, right, it's up to you to do that, and that's going to help you have a good conversation with your boss when you do that. Now, if your boss is reluctant to adjust your wage immediately, I get it. I get it because they just paid the cost for you to go get the certification. I get it.

Speaker 1: 20:15

But maybe suggest other things like OK, well, how about we do this? Let's set up milestones, right, let's set milestones. So let's say, in in six months, if I'm able to bring this project in the budget, if I'm able to design these projects, that would trigger an increase in the future. This is going to show that you got the long, you're in it for the long game, right? I don't know if I read this, if I saw it on TV or something, but I do remember that the average American company literally only looks like three to five years ahead, but a Japanese company looks decades ahead when it comes to planning. You should be doing the same thing with your career, right? And if you go through this process and you showed it to them, well then you've already said look, hey, the company is going to see that and they're going to see that you're in it for the long run. Again, that's going to be loyalty Loyalty.

Speaker 1: 21:18

The fourth scenario that I can think of if somebody wanting to ask for a raise because they got their credential now and they paid for their own away. There are some companies out there that just right, especially right now. The economy is kind of weird. Right now, companies are afraid to go out and invest in stuff. There are a lot of companies that don't want the sad thing about business when the economy goes into downturn and they need better employees, better trained employees. That's also the time when they usually cut back on their training, which makes absolutely no sense. Shoot yourself in the foot when you need your people to perform at their best. You don't get rid of that training, even though the economy is not going to be that well. So let's say that they may not want to go in and pay for you to get your credential.

Speaker 1: 22:05

I know a lot of people a lot of people, who have funded their own credentials and they did it for lots of reasons who have funded their own credentials and they did it for lots of reasons the company didn't want to invest in it, or the company didn't see a value in it, or the company's long-term goals didn't match up with the employee's long-term goals. Or sometimes some employees, they just don't want that hanging over their head. They want that training commitment hanging over their head. I get that too. I get that too. I get that too. I get that too. So if you had to pay for your own training, right, you've shown that you have initiative. Right, you show which is that's going to be incredibly valuable to your employer, incredibly valuable. You know there's getting your credentials one way. There are other ways.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Be a continuous learner. You've heard me say I'll stand on top of the ICT mountain of knowledge and I will always scream this Make sure you subscribe to and read Cable Installation and Maintenance Magazine. Make sure that you watch every free webinar that you can, because knowledge is power. It's one of my keystones of my podcast. Knowledge is power. Right, so you pay for your own certification. Now, right, and here's the thing Start by highlighting your commitment to your own growth and it shows to the company.

Speaker 1: 23:25

They may not notice it at first. Right, when I teach classes during the day, I tell technicians all the time there's a whole bunch of free CECs out there and even for those people who don't need CECs, you should be training those trainings too. And then when you get that certification from that webinar, take it to the HR department, make a copy, say, hey, put this in my personnel file and eventually your file is going to start getting thicker and thicker and thicker. Eventually your file is going to start getting thicker and thicker and thicker and that HR person or your manager, whichever the case may be is going to start seeing that, hey, this person is investing in their career. We want to keep this person around for a while. This is a good technician, this is a good project manager, this is a good estimator to have.

Speaker 1: 24:07

They will notice, but it won't come. It's like losing weight. My wife and I we're doing carnivore. We did a carnivore thing for 90 days. We're coming up to our last four weeks.

Speaker 1: 24:16

When you start losing weight, people don't notice it right away. They don't. You might lose 20 pounds, 30 pounds, maybe even more, before the first person says, hey, are you losing weight? It's the same way when you're investing in knowledge in yourself. People won't notice it right away, but don't let that be a deterrent. Invest in it, learn, learn, learn. If it doesn't help you in your current position, it will help you in your career. It absolutely will help you in your career. So think about that, always invest in yourself, always about that. You know, just always. There's nothing. Always invest in yourself, always.

Speaker 1: 24:54

And what's going to happen is you know the company will eventually realize that you know what they are benefiting from these additional skills that you learned because you took them upon yourself without them actually having any direct investment. And you know what a good, a good manager is going to say wait a minute, this guy's becoming smarter. Or this girl, this technician, is becoming smarter and better and faster and quicker. They're learning these additional skills. If I don't do something to keep this person, I might lose them to my competitors, so it's going to get them to start thinking about that. So, again, they realize that you're starting to improve without them directly investing in you and those positions. And this is really going to position you in a strong negotiation for a wage increase, because you've essentially taken out. You've taken all the risk. You paid for the books you studied, you paid for the exam fees. You might have even traveled to wherever to take this test. You've funded all of your own pocket. There was no risk to the company and, trust me, they're going to notice at some point.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Mention that your certification is going to allow you to take on more advanced tasks and greater responsibility, thus potentially reducing the need for external support. Again, like I mentioned in some of the other scenarios, it's all about all about showing the company how, by you having a certification, is going to benefit them too, and I would benefit them. This is where the whole humble comes into place. It comes into play. It really really does, and this is this can be from whether it's improving. You know project timelines. You know you took the CFOT certification and now you're able to to terminate fiber quicker and more consistently and less, less go backs right.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Or you have taken a uh uh. It doesn't have to even be FOA or Bixby. It could be a customer. I mean, it could be a class on um, customers and customer satisfaction. You know LinkedIn. They bought out I can't remember the name of the training platform. There was a training platform that you could subscribe to and if you are a premium member of LinkedIn, you get free access to all this training. There's a lot of great classes there that talk about customer satisfaction and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 27:12

So everybody from the apprentice just learning how to pull cable to the owner of the company is a representative or a salesperson for that company. Don't let that ever fool you. Don't think oh, I'm not the salesperson, chuck, I'm just a technician. You are the person that that customer sees the most. They see you more than they see the salesperson. So learn good customer service skills, learn good communication skills, learn how to use Excel and spreadsheet, and then again this all comes back in. And don't be afraid to go a little bit further than you think, because they might offer you something. You can always negotiate from there. You can always, always negotiate from there.

Speaker 1: 27:59

Well, I didn't expect that to take 30 minutes. Oops, I do have another question, but we're at a break point, so we'll have to do that next week, I guess. So the question for next week is and this is from Romelio Chirino and he goes he wants to know what is the best resource from Bixie for design and installation for point-to-point antennas and wireless networks. So I will make sure that I cover that next week. Let's go back and look at some of the questions. Look at some of the questions Negotiating salary, find a different job that pays more and leave is the best way.

Speaker 1: 28:37

If the company actually valued you, they would increase your salary all the time when you get your certifications. I don't quite. I somewhat agree with you and I somewhat disagree with you. Right, I agree with you in a little bit, because Centennial PA is a beer IPA. See, I should be wearing my glasses. Absolutely, once you get your RCDD, go ahead and look at you know, go to resume or indeedcom, whatever and find out what other positions are paying for the certification. So you know what your value is Okay for the certification. So you know what your value is Okay. And there is a thought process that some companies want to pay you the cheapest amount they can. So the only way to get a raise is to leave and come back. I get that too. But but when you show that loyalty we talked about loyalty earlier when you show that loyalty, if they're looking to create a new position or do something different, they're going to reward the people who have the loyalty first. So I somewhat agree with you, but I also disagree. I'd argue that you have no leverage in salary negotiation unless you have a different job ready. $5,000 a year increases much more and less it'll cost them. That is a negotiation tactic. That is. That is absolutely.

Speaker 1: 30:00

When I got my RCDD. My company paid for mine and I worked for a large company and so when I got mine this is back when Bixie used to list all the RCDs on their website and you could actually go on and you can find all the new RCDs and what was happening? This is why the Bixie locked it down Headhunters would find out who just got the RCDD the last 30 days and they would contact them and say, hey, look, I got a customer. So when I got my RCD, I got a job notification. A headhunter contacted me. I went on a job interview. I got offered a job making a significant amount more than I was making currently at the company I was working for, but I wanted to give my company the offer first. I went to my company and I said, look, hey, you know, I got my RCD. You paid for me to get it. I appreciate that, but I'm getting these job offers at X, x dollar and I didn't really expect my company to match that dollar value. I just wanted them to say, hey, look, you are more valuable. Here's X, y, z. And it's a good thing I didn't take that job because a year later, when I got promoted, because of my loyalty, because I stayed with the company. I got promoted to division estimator. I was no longer the estimator for that office, I was the division estimator for the entire division. All the estimators Got that because I was loyal. So I was interviewing somebody to replace my local job as an estimator and I was looking at his resume and I realized that that guy took the job that was offered to me a year ago and I said what happened? He goes. Oh yeah, they went out of business. So be careful with that whole going to a different company, cause you know it could come around and bite you.

Speaker 1: 31:54

Somebody says never signed a training agreement. The company should pay so much for employees to get their training or college degrees as a standard benefit. I agree with that a hundred percent. A good company look up IES. A good company, look up vision. A good company will invest in their employees because they realize that their employees are their best benefit. Absolutely, absolutely. But that does not mean you're going to find that the world's not perfect. The world is not perfect. Shotzi's in the house. Shotzi says how would you show a company the certification like an RCDD is worth it. Great question, shotzi. So again, just go through the ways that I was talking about earlier, how it increased your skill. You talked to me about this before, shotzi, because you've been in my study programs. You have said that because you being in the study program, how learning the stuff before you got your RCDD, how it has helped you Again, document that and show that.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Somebody says, shotzi, most certifications and degrees are not worth anything if you can't do the work, if you can do the work without them. Let me read that again Most certifications and degrees are not worth anything if you can do the work without them. No, I don't agree with that. I do not agree with that and here's why I don't agree with that. I mean, well, I somewhat disagree with that. I don't totally disagree with that, I somewhat disagree. And the reason I say that is because when you get certain credentials, you have to get continuing education credits. To me, as a hiring manager, as a project manager, operations manager, if I know that you've got one of those credentials, I know you're investing every year in knowledge because you've got to get them to maintain that certification.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Our industry changes way too fast. If you install cable like we used to install pod scaling back in the day with staples, your category rate cable is not going to work right. That's just one out of many. Our industry moves at the speed of light, moves at the speed of light. So I'd somewhat disagree with that statement. The only times that they are helpful generally is with gatekeeping, if they are required.

Speaker 1: 34:03

See, I kind of disagree with that too, because I don't mean to keep disagreeing with you, I really don't. But the reason I somewhat disagree with that too is because I have come across people who have their RCDD certifications. I've come across people who have their Bixie Technician certifications. I've come across people with their CFOT certifications. They were book smart but not street smart. There are some people that are just absolutely great at learning things and great at testing, great at memorization, but when it comes to the fine motor skills and actually doing the work, the memory to handle a project manager managing 10, 15, 20 projects at one time and you're having different stages and being able to do without losing all your hair, you lose all your hair. That's funny. Um, that shows something. That typically shows something. So there you go. All right, I did go a little bit over. Sorry, six, 35. I apologize. I will answer that next question next week. So next time, everybody remember, knowledge is power.