Elevating ICT Careers Here and Abroad: Insights from International Trainer Sheriff on Credentialing and Training

Unlock the secrets to elevating your career in the ICT industry with insights from international trainer Sheriff! In this episode of Let's Talk Cabling, Sheriff joins us to discuss the unique challenges and significant importance of credentialing in Saudi Arabia's ICT sector. From tackling cultural and language barriers to overcoming resource limitations, Sheriff shares his experience as the managing director of ProSkills Trainings, a BICSI-authorized training facility dedicated to delivering comprehensive ICT and telecom training. We'll explore why credentialing is not just a formality but a vital tool for ensuring high-quality installations and maintaining industry standards.

Discover how Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 is driving the need for well-trained ICT professionals and why investing in employee training is more crucial than ever. Sheriff and I delve into the financial hurdles individuals face when self-funding their education and how companies can play a pivotal role in supporting their staff's growth. We also highlight vocational education and government initiatives aimed at attracting young talent to the low voltage fields, shifting the traditional notion that hands-on experience is enough without formal credentials.

We'll also tackle the perennial debate of experience versus credentials. Sheriff and I discuss the necessity of certifying every cable drop to uphold professional standards and the advantages of BICSI certifications, especially in the data center environment. Learn how having credentialed employees can give your company a competitive edge and ensure project reliability. We'll also share strategies to retain certified employees and maximize the long-term benefits of certification, including enhanced skill sets and improved employee loyalty. Don't miss this insightful episode that's packed with valuable advice for both ICT professionals and employers alike.

Chapters

• 0:00 International Trainer Talk
• 12:14 Training and Development in Saudi Arabia
• 17:42 Quality Through Experience and Credentialing
• 28:19 Bixie Training Program Benefits
• 31:50 Bixie Certification in Data Centers
• 43:36 Future Visits and Gratitude

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys, welcome to another episode of let's Talk Cabling. This episode we're going international trainer talk. Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by. Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by apprentices, installers, technicians, project managers, estimators, even customers. We're connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button? Don't forget that bell button so we can help educate, encourage and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Wednesday nights at 6 pm, eastern Standard Time. What are you doing? You know we do a live stream on LinkedIn, tiktok, facebook and a bunch of other platforms. We get to ask your favorite RCDD and you know that's me your favorite RCDD Questions on installation certification design. Your favorite RCDD questions on installation certification design. I even do career path questions, but I can hear you now, chuck, I'm driving my truck. Wednesday nights at 6 pm. I don't want to get into an accident. I got you covered. We record them and you can watch them at your convenience. And finally, while this show is free and will always remain free, if you find value in this content, would you click on that QR code right there you can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even schedule a 15-minute one-on-one call with me after hours, of course, and you can also visit our Amazon link for our products. We're also looking for corporate sponsorship as well.

Speaker 1: 1:39

When I started this show four years ago, it's vastly different from what I envisioned from when I first started this journey. When I first started this journey, I thought it would just be me talking to a bunch of people locally. I had no idea that this show would go beyond America. I have people reach out to me all the time. I've got people lining up to come on the time. I've got shows People come on the show to be guests and stuff like that and I get people with questions and stuff, and some of them are really great questions that I got to do research for. So that's what I really like about this show, because it really reinforces that, while we might live in separate countries, we're really all struggling with the same issues. So what I did was I reached out to a fellow trainer and we're going to have some training talk and we're going to talk about training and challenging issues that a lot of people are facing in not just the US, but abroad as well. So welcome to the show, sheriff. How are you doing, my friend?

Speaker 2: 2:45

I'm good and thanks for the great introduction. I am really honored to be on your show and hopefully we answer the questions that usually people on this side of the world they are seeking for.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Absolutely so. Why don't you go ahead and give the audience members the 30-second highlight of who you are and who you work for, and what do you do?

Speaker 2: 3:13

Thank you for that. Actually, I am the managing director of ProSkills Trainings. We are certified. We have our own facility for Bixi. We are an authorized training facility for Bixi in Saudi Arabia. We are also ADTP as well and we do a lot of other trainings as well, like we have 5G, 6g trainings. We have a Fluke CCTV training also. So we have a lot of trainings that are related to ICT, it and telecom that our industry requires. Basically, yeah, you know, I'm related to ICT, it and telecom that our industry requires basically, yeah, you know I'm not your typical American.

Speaker 1: 3:49

I've been outside the US on several occasions and been to many countries and stuff like that, but it was always for vacation. I never well, except for once I did go to the UK one time to teach. So most of the time I'm there as a tourist. So I always got to wondering you know, how is it really different? You know, again, I'm US centric, I deal with US issues. So one of the biggest things that I think maybe I hear is recognition, right, or maybe even awareness for credentialing. I fight that battle here in the US, believe it or not. Sometimes I run into two major crowds those who don't believe in credentialing and the others who, huh, Credentialing, I can get certified. What's that? What kind of challenges? Or what's the biggest challenge you're facing in Saudi Arabia as far as credentialing?

Speaker 2: 4:45

See, to be very frank with you, you know this is the question that I need to answer in a very elaborative way. Actually, this is something you know. I will go from the past, actually. So, when I was working in my past company, so I was there as an ICT director and I was handling a lot of products as a product manager as well. So in that one, you know, what I faced was the biggest challenge was during the installation of those products. Even the products are very good, even the brands are very big, globally recognized brands, everywhere they are approved, but the major issue related to the installation was there actually. So there was major lack of awareness regarding the credentials were there, and another problem, you know, when we are talking about the credential here in this part of the world, is the cultural barrier as well. So, because english is our second language, you know. So that is something else also that needs to be addressed.

Speaker 2: 5:48

And the people who are working here in saudi arabia, uh, the mostly the technicians or the installers, they are from different countries like south asian countries, like india, pakistan, bangladesh and Far East countries like Philippines. So these are the people who are mostly, like I would say, 80 to 90% of the technician and installers are from those type of places, so for them to address this challenge of this language is quite big actually. And the other problem that I felt here is the resource constraint. The resource is not available. So something like this, uh, like authorized training facility, was not available here before. This is the first time, you know, I took this initiative, I took a chance on my career, actually just to impart that knowledge that I have, whatever I can give to the others so that, to you know, to enhance the quality of the projects that's this beautiful country, uh, that they are seeking for. There is a lot of major mega projects, giga projects, that are running in saudi arabia and you maybe even you are seeing those ads in USA as well.

Speaker 1: 7:04

I've noticed that, probably with the guys, or maybe I've only. I can't say this happened five years ago, but I've only started noticing it. Five years ago there seems to have been a concerted effort by organizations like Big C to try to do more things in Saudi Arabia. Am I correct in saying that or am I incorrect?

Speaker 2: 7:29

It is there. Actually, before we used to have a big CMEA, there was a region was there, but now, I think so, due to Corona, that was closed. The office is closed now, even though you know the awareness and you know the challenges that we are facing here is to, you know, to create that ecosystem that people should understand that, what these credentials hold for their work and their work culture, basically, so let me ask you this One of the things I find is people don't understand the credentialing process.

Speaker 1: 8:05

They don't understand, for example, they don't understand what's the difference between, you know, installercop or InstallerFiber or RCDD or OSP, right, what are some of the misconceptions, especially dealing with like value and credentialing and stuff that you find in your part of the world that?

Speaker 2: 8:23

you find in your part of the world See the value of credentialing. The major issue over here is that you know the industry recognition. So the people, the employers that they are working for, they should also know the value of an RCDT. Like recently I got a call from one of the system integrator. He called me. He saw that on the project it is mentioned that the project manager for the ICT should be an RCDD. So he called me. He told me, like I need 10 people from my team to be certified as an RCDD. I will send you all of them, give them the certificates and send it back to them.

Speaker 1: 9:01

I pay you on that Getting your RCDD is just like you know, I don't know going to your local store and buying a certificate yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:12

I know some people who try for years to get the RCDD yeah, years. And I know.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Yeah, even me also. I took two years to pass the exam.

Speaker 1: 9:24

I know of an individual that I used to work with. He failed the exam four times before he finally passed. You know it's getting. One of the best things I ever did for my career was getting my RCDD, but I'm telling you now it was not one of the easiest. It was not one of the easiest.

Speaker 2: 9:44

You need to do. You need to do a lot of sacrifices. Once you are a working professional, it's not easy to become an RCDD. You have to come back from work, you have to study, you have to convince your wife that you are studying only.

Speaker 1: 9:59

You are not talking to another person. It's funny you say that because when I run my study groups, that's what I tell the people. That's what I tell the people, that's what I tell the students. I'm like, forget about going out Friday nights to the movies with your wife.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Forget about going out to the pool hall on Saturdays until you're done with this program Because you need to be focused on this. Afterwards you can have an extra great big party at your house, but until you get it you need to buckle down because it's going to be a journey and I was fortunate enough that the company I worked for they value that credential and they actually helped me get the credential. They didn't pay for me to take a class, but they did pay for the books and the testing fee and they paid for me to travel because I had to go take my test like four or five states away. This was back before they were doing everything through Pearson Review and so luckily, I did have the support to get my RCD. What role do you believe employers have and industry leaders this is not just a limit to employers in promoting the importance of those credentials?

Speaker 2: 11:13

See, there are multiple things that employers and industry leaders, they can play as a crucial role in promoting the importance of these credentialing. So basically, like for the end users, if they are setting a standard that on your projects, the people who are designing the ICT projects, they should be like RCDD, or the one who is managing the project, he should be an RTPM. And the people who are doing the installation they should be at least installer certified and the supervisor he should be like a technician level certified person. So then you know the the value of those things will will show them the results actually. So they have to do, they have to start this one and, as you mentioned, like your company, they paid for your travels, they paid for your books, they quit for your exams. So those types of incentives also, they need to take care of that, those.

Speaker 2: 12:14

This is one of the major, important point actually. So here in this part of the world we have this problem actually. So there are a lot of individuals coming to me. They are coming to me that said, give me like like 50% discount, 60% discount on the trainings and because my employer is not paying, I'm paying it from my salary, even me also. You know I did all my certification. I invested I would not say I spent, I would say I invested this on my growth, basically, and the support training also. They should be there, like all those type of people they need to be trained Like, for example, if there is some project or something like this is there. So those type of people, at least either from the end user side or from the consultant side, or from the system integrator side, they should invest in the support of the training of their employees.

Speaker 1: 13:07

You know, one of the best things a company can do for itself is to invest in its people, and the good companies get that concept. There's a lot of companies that don't, and so I've come across a lot of people, you know, via the podcast and just going to Bixie conferences because I'm a chatty Cathy at a, b, the podcast, and, and just going to bixie conferences because I'm I'm a chatty kathy at a big city conference, I talk to everybody and uh, just from talking to people, and there's a, a lot of people who are willing and, let's be honest, training, training's not cheap and they're willing to go out and pay for it. Yeah, I agree, because they realize the value. And you know, one of the things beautiful things too is a lot of people don't realize this. And I do because I don't know why, but I just do.

Speaker 1: 13:51

But Saudi Arabia is a great country and it's got a lot of, a lot of people don't realize how beautiful it is over there. And you guys are also I wouldn't say I wouldn't say on the leading edge of rapidly developing technology and deploying technology right. So how can credentialing help make that a priority? And what about vocational education? Do you guys have that there?

Speaker 2: 14:18

Yeah, there is a lot of government support nowadays, as you mentioned. It's a very beautiful country and you should you know you and your friends and your family should visit Saudi Arabia. We have a season coming up and there is a lot of events going on here. Another thing like, as you mentioned, you know that in Saudi Arabia now, this thing have recently started, actually the digitization age, you would say the vision of 2030 of Saudi Arabia and the vision of the new crown prince and the king of Saudi Arabia.

Speaker 2: 14:55

They want to digitize, they want to be like the number one in the you know, technological, uh field. So even this is my goal as well to prepare those people to reach that peak, to reach that height, actually. So that's what I am working on. This is why I built this facility and I hope that I succeed in doing so and I can help those people to achieve their dream. And we have a lot of projects running on. If you see on you can check it on YouTube we have Neom, red Sea, amala and inshallah. We will be getting the 2034 football, the FIFA as well.

Speaker 1: 15:41

It amazes me. Just you know, the more I learn about that country, the more I appreciate it. I just you guys, I think you guys can actually set, I think you guys are setting an example for other countries to live by. To be honest with you, so you know, being a fellow trainer, what strategies are you deploying to help encouraging professionals, especially let's be honest here the young professionals, because our industry is aging out and a lot of us old guys are retiring. We need to get young blood in this industry. So what are you guys doing to encourage the young workforce to get into low voltage and realize, hey, this is a good?

Speaker 2: 16:22

career to be in. To answer your question, a lot of young people here. They are not aware about the credentials and these things and even they have this perception from their elders that the experience matters more than the paper, so the piece of paper, so that is still so. That's why what I am doing in my facility I'm doing like open days, like open day for our CDD, for for technician courses, for installer courses, for project management. So I'm inviting all those people, I'm doing an open invite for the people come and see and then I'll do the counseling for them, like how they can start the career and from where they can start the career.

Speaker 2: 17:11

And there is very good initiative now from the saudi government. They are doing a lot of effort actually to train the young saudis. They have a lot of entities now recently opened, like uh, there is tvtc is there. Uh, this is for training, for vocational trainings basically, and then we have under vision 2030. There is a lot of enablement programs are there for the young saudis. So that is something really good and I believe that it will take the nation to the next level.

Speaker 1: 17:42

You know that you mentioned that how some people will say well, the experience matters more than a piece of paper. I hear the same thing. I hear the same thing and in some circumstances I agree right, because there are some people who are what I call diploma chasers. They'll get in and they'll just go get their certificate and they say look at me, I'm, I'm certified, but they have like three weeks experience. The best technician is going to have both experience and the credential, you know. And once you, once you get that credential, things happen Right.

Speaker 1: 18:22

For number one, customers look at you differently because now you have a credential and you have to maintain that credential. And there's, there's certain requirements to maintaining any credential. To the person who just only has experience, well, you don't know if that's experience in doing category six, a cable, or if that was experience doing pots cabling from when they used to work for mob bill back 45 years ago. Those are two totally different things. So experience isn't always the answer. The the right answer is experience tied with credentialing makes the best technician right. That's what I think there and so so I think in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yeah, I agree to your point. Sorry to interrupt you in between. Actually, actually, I have been giving fluke trainings from the last seven years now. So fluke, you know, is a tester, which is like people. They don't say they want to do cable certifications, they say I want to do fluke test. There is nothing as fluke test. What fluke test is? If you check the meaning of fluke in English, it's totally different actually. So I, yeah, so they tell me that you know, I've been using fluke since the last 20 years and what this new guy will teach me, yeah, that's a different show. Yeah, that's a different show. That's the biggest challenge actually to convince those type of technicians, experienced technicians. I fight that battle on a daily basis.

Speaker 1: 19:45

People are like I never certify, I just do a continuity test. I'm like what, yeah? And then people say, well, I only certify when the customer pays. Okay, as a professional and this is my personal opinion opinion is not written in any books anywhere other than the book of chuck you should be certifying every cable drop. You do. You know for your, for your satisfaction, that you know that cable's performing the way it does. So it sounds to me like there's a lot of cultural similarities between, uh, between my part of the world and and your part of the world. Is there any cultural significant differences in your part of the world and your part of the world? Is there any cultural significant differences in your part of the world that maybe people from my part of the world wouldn't really understand?

Speaker 2: 20:29

The thing is that you know there are limited resources where there before to get these type of trainings. So something like this was never here before. So you see, you guys have ATFs since 1980s, so this is the first ATF in Saudi Arabia. So you can understand, like, what value it holds and how. You know how much work I need to do actually to create that awareness. Yes, okay, you know the things, but you know the things in certain direction. Actually, in ict, it is not only about copper cables and fiber cables. There is a lot of other things are there. There is grounding and bonding is there, the pathway systems is there. So those things, you know the people, they are missing actually.

Speaker 2: 21:19

So I I think that, uh, it will take some time and a lot of efforts, but I am trying my level best to to to impart that, uh, you know, the awareness to those I understand you had some questions you wanted to ask me yeah, I have a lot of questions that I wanted to ask you, but I think so we have limited time, so we'll go one by one for those questions, like now how Bixie helped the major projects of the USA, whether enterprise or data centers I could do so. Why I'm asking these questions? Because we have a lot of enterprise projects, mega projects, eager projects, running a lot of data centers coming up in next year.

Speaker 1: 22:04

So I can. I can make a whole entire show just out of just that one question, right? So here's the thing. Here in the U? S we have three different levels, right? We have codes, we have standards, we have best practices. And I've said this more than one occasion average installers follow the code book because that's minimum quality of construction. The better technicians follow the standards. Right, because the standards will always meet or exceed the standards. The difference between codes and standards is standards guarantees performance, codes don't. And then the best of the best of the best follow the Bixie stuff, the Bixie best practices.

Speaker 1: 22:46

What does that do for people? The Bixie best practice does lots of things. Number one it's going to give you consistency of design, right? So from an end user's perspective, if I'm choosing between two contractors Contractor A and Contractor B I know they both have RCDDs on the step, they both follow the standards I know, then at that point it's going to be done the same no matter who I pick. It really boils down to price and relationship. So it guarantees that the cable plan is going to be put in, it's going to work with the technology it was designed to work with and it's going to be consistent. Then, on the other side of that, if you're hiring a company that has credentialed individuals, you know that those individuals, they have read the books, they know the books, they've been tested on the books. They sat in front of a proctor and that doesn't mean that somebody who's not certified is not as good, but that shows that that installer's gone one additional step. So that helps for the whole solicitation of a bid process and I honestly think that it provides a superior product at the end of the day, a product that's going to work today, it's going to work tomorrow, it's going to work next month, next year.

Speaker 1: 24:06

And correctly, just to kind of give you an example, the standard tells us that we have to put up one. We would have to cover one wall with three-quarter-inch AC-grade plywood. Best practice to say two, because they understand telecom rooms grow, equipment grows, you need space for that. And the standards you know when you look at Bixie's got the installation program, they got the design program right. So with the installation program that tells the installer the correct way to actually install it.

Speaker 1: 24:41

You know that's got to be. You know three quarter inch AC grade. It tells them what grade to go by. It tells them how to mount it to the wall properly so it doesn't fall off. I've seen a lot of people, you know I mean I'm all over social media TikTok, instagram, all these places and I see people posting videos and I see some people not just technicians, but people who are, who should know better post how to do things and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's not the right way to do that and I will interrupt you in between, actually, because you touch a very sensitive part for me.

Speaker 2: 25:17

Actually, you talked about AC grid plywood plywood. This plywood is not available in south arabia, so I went into the market to build my facility. I needed this and without these ac grade plywood, bixi was not giving me the approval for the atf and it should be like AC grade plywood should be there, and Christina was super strict on that part. So the problem was that I went in the market. I asked them. They said what is AC grade plywood? So you can this is what I'm telling you that this is something you know, which I have to create a lot of educational awareness over here, and I need to talk about a lot of success stories. I think so, of the projects and of the people as well, like how these type of credentials help the people to grow in their career.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Yeah, that's a question I get quite often. When I talk about plywood and I say AC grade, most people don't know what AC grade means. You're really just describing the finish on the plywood. A piece of plywood that has A grade means it's ready to paint. You don't have to do anything to it. A piece of plywood that's got a C grade means it can have up to six blemishes or one knot. So one side is beautiful, the other side's got some knots. That's all that really means. A lot of people think it's fire rating. It's not. It's not. It's just describing the finish of the plywood and just kind of step back and get back into why should they follow the best practices?

Speaker 1: 26:48

You know the best practices are written by subject matter experts who have not years of experience, decades of experience. And my dad always said the best lesson you can learn is from somebody else's mistake. And so when you read the best practices, that's what you're doing. You're learning from the mistakes that those people made. And then they made changes so they won't make those mistakes again, so you don't have to make these mistakes. And then they thought enough of us, the younger generation, to put it in a book and say here it is for you. Now you don't have to make the same mistakes I did. So that's the value, I think, and it can help residential cabling, enterprise cabling, data center cabling, and there's even books specific to those environments. There's a book for data centers. There's a book for commercial buildings centers. There's a book for commercial buildings. I really do think that it's a value add if you see those credentials attached to any kind of project documentation or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 27:55

So, coming on to my next question, what do you think about Bixby trainings, how they can help the professionals of ICT in Saudi Arabia?

Speaker 1: 28:02

So it can help twofold. We were just talking about experience versus credentialing. So for the people who are experienced, number one, it'll make sure that their skills are current, current, right. And let me explain that one. A long long time ago I used to be a Bixie certified trainer. When I used to work for another company, we had our own ATF and so I used to have technicians come up to me all the time. Chuck, I've been a technician for 10 years. Do I really have to sit in the class? No, you can test out. Okay, I want to test out. I said okay.

Speaker 1: 28:39

And they would always fail the hands-on, always fail the hands-on. And that's because, like, for example, you know they would, they would like, they like six, six blocks, they would, they would use a telephone lace instead of the high performance cable lace. And I'm like, and at that point, when you you know if we're in a class, I can educate you why they're different and you know why. But in a testing scenario I can't do that. I'm sorry. Boom, fail, right. So so for the experienced people, make sure that your, your experience that you're so fond of, is current, right. And for those who don't have the experience, if you don't have the ability to find someone to mentor you, because our industry is bad about this and I've said it from day one we're bad about mentoring our people. Although Bixie does have a mentoring program and it's making some headway and stuff and even I mentor people as well we're still bad about sharing that information. So there's some people either A they don't want to ask someone how to do stuff, or the person that they're going to ask doesn't want to give that information.

Speaker 1: 29:50

Literally $90 in the US I don't know how much this will cost you in Saudi Arabia. For $90, you can buy the field guides, right, copper, fiber and general practices. Read through those For anybody coming new to the industry and you're going to know a lot about the industry right away, right? So I think the Bixie classes that I have attended the instructors were fantastic. I'm good friends with many training delivery specialists now and I know them personally and I've seen them teach. I'm telling you it's a great class and if you watch my podcast, I just did the tour of the Bixie Training Facility and I'm telling you what that's like the Taj Mahal of training. I would love to teach in that place. I wish I had as an instructor.

Speaker 1: 30:44

I could.

Speaker 2: 30:47

That's what I say for my training center also. I say it's a Disneyland of ICT.

Speaker 1: 30:52

I like that, I like that, I like that.

Speaker 2: 30:56

You took mine, so that's why yes, yes um, it's well disneylands, california.

Speaker 1: 31:01

So it'd have to be the disney world of uh, of isaac train, because disney world's florida, disney lands california. Yeah, and the way I remember that is disneyland land la los angeles. That's how I remember the difference between those two.

Speaker 2: 31:14

But yeah, I mean absolutely.

Speaker 1: 31:17

It is the Bixie classes. You know, like I said, subject matter experts help design the books that the classes are based on. They're current. You will never go wrong taking a Bixie class and it's not going to be cheap. I'll tell you that right out of the gate. It's not going to be cheap. But as Dad always said, knowledge is expensive, stupidity is more expensive. Your father was a wise man, you know it took me way too long to realize that.

Speaker 2: 31:50

Now I have two questions, actually the last two questions. For me, it's very important. Actually I need to ask you those. That, why we the last two questions for me, it's very important. Actually I need to ask you this that why we are talking about AI data centers. We are talking about 100 gig. We are talking about 200 gig, 400 gig every day, 100 gigs is increasing like every week or every month. Okay, so why do we need a Bixby certified technician or an installer for those data centers?

Speaker 1: 32:18

First off, let's take a look at data centers right. Compared to a regular network, like a network in a small office somewhere, if you have a small little business and that network goes down, yeah, there's pain, yeah there's delays. If a data center goes down, you're talking about huge outages. We're talking about outages that could affect airplanes being able to land or be scheduled to take off, and these are things that just happened relatively recently in the past. So data centers must maintain that uptime and the way that they do that is to make sure that the stuff gets installed in a way that's going to ensure that the equipment and the cable performs the way it was designed. It was tested and certified, so that way there's a guarantee, and that there's. It's also looking towards the future, and that's what the whole training program is about.

Speaker 1: 33:09

So a certified installer has to go through that processes, understand the processes, and they got to stay. That's the best thing about theirs. They've got to stay current. A lot of people don't realize. They know RCDD's got to get CECs, but so do Bixie technicians, so they've got to stay current too. So they're staying plugged in and saying, oh look, hey look, there's this. You know we can do up to 400 gig now over Fiverr and so you've got to stay current with that technology. So if you get that BICSI certified technician, then you know that they're staying up to date, they're staying current and they understand the installation practice versus new versus old.

Speaker 2: 33:46

What value do you think that this authorized training facility of BICSI in Riyadh will provide to the people here in this region?

Speaker 1: 33:55

I think it will elevate the level of professionalism amongst the installation people in your area. I really do, because I've found that even people who I know, who aren't credentialed, they understand, you probably even heard this yourself They'll say, oh yeah, that's the big C way of doing it, right.

Speaker 2: 34:21

You hear that a lot.

Speaker 1: 34:25

So just by some people getting their certifications and learning that stuff. It drags everybody else along with it because they realize, oh well, that's the correct way, then I've got to do it that way too. So it's going to elevate the professionalism and the quality of the people in the area. That's the best thing to do, and I'm glad to see that you've created your own ATF there. And again, like I said, maybe one day I'll get to come out there and visit you and watch you teach a class in the Disney world of ICT, you will be invited.

Speaker 2: 35:01

Actually, a lot of people here they think like now I'm communicating to a lot of system integrators and those people. They are saying it is too time consuming. So what do you have to say about this? Like these credential? Like five days they need to take off their team from the project and they will be sitting here and studying.

Speaker 1: 35:23

Oh that's such a great question because you know companies. That's the biggest thing. I can't afford to take somebody out of the field. Okay, all right, all right. So if you were to hire somebody who has the skill sets that this credential is going to give that person, how much time would that take to get them up to speed with your company? Yes, you've got to pay travel expenses, costs for the classes and the curriculum and the books and all that stuff, but you're going to come back with a better installer, a better designer.

Speaker 1: 35:59

And one of the things I've found from training people over the last two decades is when, as a trainer, when you train somebody, they become what's the word I'm looking for? They become more loyal, word I'm looking for. They become more loyal. They will like they feel it increases that relationship with you and your employer Because, look, my employer is no longer just a cursory supervisor, apprentice relationship. Look, this company. He recommended me to go take this class because he saw something in me that can make me better. It can make me a better technician, a better project manager, I can make more money. They saw something in me and it just creates a better relationship between the employee and the employer. It is a win-win-win scenario. Yeah, it's expensive.

Speaker 2: 36:55

A counter question to that Go ahead, Okay. So now, once I'm able to convince them about this. So they are saying that if they will get this certification, why they will stay with me? They will get a new job with a higher salary.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Man, you got some great questions. My brother, you got some great questions. So I look at it this way. And there's a couple of trains of thoughts here.

Speaker 1: 37:21

Man, you got some great questions. My brother, you got some great questions. So I look at it this way. And there's a couple of trains of thoughts here.

Speaker 1: 37:26

I have worked for companies in the past that they would train you, they would send you to Bixie classes, but they'll make you sign a training agreement saying, ok, look, I'm paying, you know two thousand five thousand dollars to send you to this class, travel expenses class, all that stuff. I don't want you to leave. So they'll make you sign a training agreement saying, look, if you leave, you got to stay for two years, and if you leave before then, then you got to pay back a prorated portion of that two years. I get that. I understand that. I'm of the mindset that you're going to want to send the cream of the crop, your best technicians. You want to reward loyalty where you're not worried about them taking that certification and then jumping ship to go work somewhere else for another additional 10 cents an hour.

Speaker 1: 38:13

They've proven themselves through relationship, through working and dedication, that you know they're going to be around, they're just themselves. You know through relationship, through working and dedication that you know they're going to be around. They're just going to be around and if they don't, ok, it's a decision you had to make and you know off they go. They go to another company. One of the things I've learned about being in this industry for four decades, or four plus decades the world's kind of funny Karma, funny karma, karma. Karma comes around and bites you and I've seen people come back to the original companies because they they left to go somewhere else where they thought the grass was greener or the sand was tanner right, and then they realize you know what? I really had it better back at my previous employment. It comes back.

Speaker 2: 38:57

Yeah, that's how it is. Even I miss my last general manager. Actually, he was one of the greatest leaders I had in my life. Actually, he was the one who supported me a lot and because of him I am now a certified trainer actually. Yeah, but yeah, we know that we will appreciate those type of people all our life.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yeah, I agree 100%. I had the last company well, not the last company I worked with as a contractor, but the one I probably spent the most time with. I had a supervisor who took me under his wing and he mentored me and he put me through training and all this stuff. I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't have him as a mentor at that period of time. Unfortunately, we had a falling out and so that relationship is no longer there. But I'll tell you what had it not been for his guidance, I wouldn't have achieved the things that I achieved in my career, for sure.

Speaker 2: 39:52

Yeah, but you need a mentor. For me, my mentor was Ninad Desai, I think you know, ninad. He has his own ATF in India, in Bixi, india, so this was the guy who was my mentor, who guided me actually the path that I am in now. So that's all from me.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Can you take us on a tour through your ATF?

Speaker 2: 40:19

Yes, sure, sure sure.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Show us some of the cool stuff you have.

Speaker 2: 40:24

Yeah, we have a lot of things actually, I think so those things were not there in the Big C ATF as well. Like the FDT here, we have that one as well and we have complete this is our training facility here, and so we have all types of testers. Even we have active network testers as well, some of them from from trend and we're recent we're. It's what we will receive from the other vendors as well. There is a lot of support actually that I got from my fellow vendors, like the twiler, conning, rital, uh, comscope, fluke networks, aem, vrb. So they have been very generous also to support me. So this, so this is this is the part actually I what I did I put all the cabinets with doors, the enclosures on one side and the open racks on the other side. That's beautiful, that's absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 1: 41:28

The my new podcast studio that I'm currently working on is going to look like a Bixie ATF. I've got. I've got one 10 blocks.

Speaker 2: 41:36

I've got big blocks.

Speaker 1: 41:39

I've got my blocks, I've got Bix blocks, I've got my two-post rack, I've got a wall mount cabinet coming and it's going to be just like an ATF but just a lot smaller.

Speaker 2: 41:46

This is our splicing stage.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Yeah, and we have all the tools as well. Whatever tools are required, we have all the tools and, to be frank with you, you know it took me a lot of time. Actually, it took me one year to build this facility, because 70 percent of the items that are required by any atf were not available in saudi arabia, so I have to get them from the us. Like small things, like you know, two whole lugs, you will certify, two whole lugs were not there before it's till now we don't have it. Actually there is no one who has stock of these items because there is no requirement. So, and why this two whole lug is required? You know I have been teaching this a lot, uh, on my grounding and bonding classes. So this is the wall for our big c atf and this is the wall for our big CATF and this is our small library where we will be having the and this is our team, where they are sitting. This is for our team. These are some of my credentials.

Speaker 1: 42:51

Wow, those are a lot of credentials.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Holy fish. So that's what actually. My wife is always complaining about, that, even after you know you get this bad habit of reading once you get your RCDD. So because RCDD makes you read every day, because once you are reading the PDMM first time you will read the chapter one and then you start the chapter two, then you finish the chapter two and then you don't know what was there in the chapter one.

Speaker 1: 43:25

Yep, yep, yep, yep. You got to read it all the time, that's for sure, and you got to stay current. Yeah, I agree, you got to stay current.

Speaker 2: 43:33

Yeah, so that's all for today from my side. If you have any other questions you want to, I'm good.

Speaker 1: 43:38

I appreciate the tour and I definitely look forward to the day of visiting, you know, visiting your city and making a walk through your, your facility.

Speaker 2: 43:49

You are most welcome. Anytime you want to, we will arrange.

Speaker 1: 43:53

Sounds like a plan. Thank you for coming on the show today, Sheriff. Okay.

Speaker 3: 44:04

That's it for this episode of today's podcast. We hope you were able to learn something. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on future content. Also, leave a rating so we can help even more people learn about telecommunications. Until next time, be safe.