The Future of Smart Buildings: Innovations, Technologies Part 1

What if your office building could adjust its own temperature based on the number of people inside? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Jeff Chretien, a seasoned expert from Old Castle Infrastructure, as we uncover the cutting-edge trends and innovations shaping the future of smart buildings. From Single-pair Ethernet to fault-managed power systems, Jeff shares his vast knowledge and firsthand experiences, shedding light on how robust communication systems are revolutionizing commercial buildings. This episode is the first of a two-part series that sets the stage for a comprehensive journey into the world of building automation.

Have you ever wondered what sets a smart building apart from a traditional office space? In this episode, we explore the advanced technologies that make smart buildings truly smart. With Jeff's guidance, we delve into the role of sensors, controllers, and low-voltage cabling systems that optimize occupant comfort and energy efficiency. We discuss the evolution of cabling from RS-45 to Ethernet and the enduring importance of a copper backbone for effective communication. Learn how real-time adjustments using temperature, occupancy, and humidity sensors can lead to significant cost savings and enhanced comfort for building occupants.

Copper cabling might seem old-fashioned, but its reliability, bandwidth, and security make it indispensable in modern data and building automation networks. In our discussion, Jeff highlights the advantages of copper cabling, its applications in various high-demand environments like hospitals and media companies, and why it remains a staple in HVAC systems. For installers, he offers practical advice on planning for future needs, balancing installation costs, and ensuring ease of access for upgrades. We also touch on the complexities of building management systems and the crucial role of project managers in bringing smart building projects to life. Tune in to understand how copper cabling continues to play a pivotal role in the evolving landscape of smart buildings.

Chapters

• 0:00 Smart Buildings in Building Automation
• 4:36 Key Concepts of Smart Building Technology
• 10:55 Copper Cabling in Smart Buildings
• 21:03 Building Management and Smart Building Projects

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys, welcome to another episode of let's Talk Cabling. This episode we're talking smart buildings. Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers, estimators, project managers, ict personnel, even customers. We're connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, would you mind giving us a five-star rating? Those two simple little steps help us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Thursday night, 6 pm Eastern Standard Time. What are you doing? You know I do a live stream on TikTok, instagram, facebook, everywhere where you get to ask your favorite RCDD. You know that's me your favorite RCDD your questions on installation, certification, design, project management, estimation. I even do career path questions, but I can hear you now. But, chuck, I'm driving my truck at 6 pm on Thursday. I can't get a crash. Relax, I record them and you can watch them when it's safe to do so and also if you enjoy this content. And, by the way, this content is free and will always remain free. But if you enjoy this content, would you click on that QR code right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee. You can even send me a request to have a 15-minute conversation with me after hours, of course, to discuss anything ICT related. And if you're a corporate, we're also looking for corporate sponsorship as well. So if your corporate values are educate, encourage and enrich, look me up, let's have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Now. If you've heard me talk about it on the show before, I've said it more than once, I'm kind of sad. And I'm sad because I'm towards the end of my career. I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I just hope it's not a train coming at me. And the reason I'm sad is not because I like working so much. It's because I love this industry. It's because there's so much cool stuff coming out Single-pair Ethernet, fault-managed power systems, smart buildings there's so much cool stuff coming down the pike. It's just an exciting time to be in the ICT industry.

Speaker 1: 2:29

And I do have a copy of the building automation standards here. I haven't read them yet, but I've got them. But you know, when I want to learn something, I have a tendency to reach out to people and say hey, I see that you do X, y and Z. Do you want to come on the show? You think I'm doing it for you, don't you? You're wrong. I'm doing it because I want to learn right? No, I'm doing it for all of us. I'm doing it for all of us. So we're doing a show on building automation. This is probably going to be a two-part series. First part will be building automation 101, and then the second part at 102. So it's a two-part series because I'm not quite sure how long this conversation is going to go, but we're going to roll with it. So I had to ask an industry expert to come on the show and talk to me about this. So I reached out to Jeff Kitchen. Jeff, how are you doing, my friend?

Speaker 3: 3:15

Hey, chuck, I'm doing good.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Thanks for having me Pleasure having you on. Before we get into the questions that we talked about, can you just give us a 30-second introduction? Who are you and what's?

Speaker 3: 3:30

your expertise in building automation? Yeah, perfect. So my name is Jeff Kerchen. I currently work for Old Castle Infrastructure responsible for the infrastructure components of the communications division, everywhere from front-haul back-haul technology all the way to customer premise equipment and stuff like that. So prior to that, I was about eight years in the building controls and building automation industry um worked for a few different companies responsible for the heating, ventilation, air conditioning control systems. Uh, so I've I've seen my fair share of smart buildings and commercial buildings and trying to take buildings to the next level and the importance of the communication system in these buildings.

Speaker 1: 4:13

So you've got some good experience in this way, more experience in building automation than I did. My exposure to building automation would be limited to me working second shift in a commercial office building or maybe even third shift, and then the AC shutting down, like at 11 o'clock at night, and then you're sweating for the next four hours. That's that's my perception of building automation. Can you give us an explanation? What's some concepts key concepts of what is a smart building and how is it different from a traditional office building?

Speaker 3: 4:44

What is a smart building and how is it different from a traditional office building? Yeah, great question. You know, when I get asked what is smart and we've toyed that question around over the years throughout my career and the way I correlate to what that is boils down to the technology that's being introduced into the building is boils down to the technology that's being introduced into the building. Uh, you know, the goal of the buildings specifically are to increase occupant comfort, right? So at 11 o'clock at night, we want to know that chuck's in there, he's still working, and, uh, and we're going to keep him comfortable.

Speaker 3: 5:19

Um, or what probably did happen was they didn't know chuck was in there and they thought this is a good time for us to save some money. Let's just let everything let that turn. Or what probably did happen was they didn't know Chuck was in there and they thought this is a good time for us to save some money. Let's just let everything turn the air conditioner off, right? So energy savings and comfort are the two things we're balancing, right, and we're using technology to find that happy equilibrium between comfort and energy savings, between comfort and energy savings. So you know, basically, what I correlate smart buildings to is, what are the technologies that are being installed to help that building make informed decisions about what's going on in that building to achieve the goals of the people managing the building?

Speaker 1: 6:04

You know, I certainly understood why they shut the AC down at 11 o'clock at night, because I spent the majority of my communication career in downtown Washington DC and a lot of law firms and stuff like that, and yeah, you get about 6 o'clock, 6.30, 7 o'clock there was nobody in the building except for me and maybe the cleaning crew, and they were usually done by 9. And so I understand. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much it would cost to keep an entire building at 72 degrees when there's nobody there. There's got to be some huge savings in that. I certainly understood why they did it. But I tell you what I certainly came home stinking, like I'd been working outside in the middle of summer sometimes, because they shut off that AC. What are some key components of a smart building low-voltage infrastructure and how do they contribute to the overall efficiency of a building?

Speaker 3: 6:57

Yeah, great question. You know, when we go to build out a smart building, there's a few key components. So you've got the equipment that's doing the job, whether that's heating, cooling or providing you lighting control or whatnot. So those are key components. We won't talk much about those. Then you've got the sensors that are around, measuring temperature, occupancy, humidity, light levels. Then you've got the controllers that marry the two together.

Speaker 3: 7:29

Now the core component that not a lot of people talk about is the cabling, is the communication, the nervous system of that building. Right, we want the sensors to pick up the information, we want it to communicate that to the controllers through the cabling, and then it's going to go to the equipment. So, and the cabling, it's grown and evolved over the years. Right, you start off with RS-45 technology, you move on to Ethernet, poe, Now we're getting into wireless components, and so it's grown and evolving over time. But I would say that the important components are, you know, the technology used to build up the controllers, the technology and the sensors, and the way all that information is shared through the network or the nervous system of the building.

Speaker 1: 8:22

Because you just listed three different types of cabling. Well, actually two different types of cabling. Well, actually two different types of cabling, one wireless. So three different ways of communicating. Which is the most common? Is it Ethernet cabling or is it wireless?

Speaker 3: 8:36

Yeah, great question. In my experience, the building is still founded on a copper backbone. That's typically what I think we're going to continue to see for a good chunk of time. Not to mention you've got older buildings that are, you know, still leveraging their existing copper backbone. So twisted pair cabling will probably be, in my opinion, around for quite a few more years to come. Now I believe it'll always be the and I said it before the backbone of the infrastructure within the building. Distribution may grow and evolve to a wireless component, but in order for you to get proper distribution, you need a copper backbone.

Speaker 1: 9:22

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Speaker 2: 9:24

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Speaker 1: 10:06

let's get back to the show yeah, yeah, I hear it all the time. I'm all over the, the social media groups for as far as low voltage groups and stuff, and it's funny to hear the uh, the young technicians, because they're all like, oh, copper's going away, everything's going to be wireless. It's like dude, they've been saying that for 40 years.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Yeah 40 years Right, right, no, no, I take it back 40 years ago copper was going to go away because fiber was going to do everything Right. And now it's wireless. And it's funny because I've got to keep reminding them you know those wireless access points. They need wire yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:45

Right, right Right and access points they need wire.

Speaker 1: 10:47

Yeah, right, right, right, and maybe at some point, you know, copper wire will go away. I still think it's a long ways off, because wireless is great but it's susceptible to RFI EMI. You have bandwidth concerns, security concerns. It's come a long, long way and it's gotten a lot better than it has, but still copper is not at the top of the ladder yet. It's not falling off yet.

Speaker 3: 11:15

No, no no, and the cool thing is they continue to grow in the capabilities that they're putting on copper right, that, right there, yeah, on copper right like I, that right there, yeah, we still, we still haven't touched or come close to touching the capabilities, right like again. I go back to the systems that I first started working on and I, you know this was only 15 years ago an rs45 communications network built on, you know, two pair of twisted wire. Now you're going to ethernet, okay, you're getting more, more bandwidth, more data rates, a little more speed. And now you're and they are growing and evolving based off that, and it's still based off, you know, copper wire. That's been around for how long. Maybe it's gotten smaller, maybe it's gotten smaller, right?

Speaker 1: 12:06

But and that's my point, exactly Right, because a lot of the people who say that they're basing their opinion on just what they see, you know data networks, you know, okay, fine. Well, you know there's other thing that uses copper cabling and you, you know building automation power over ethernet, fault managed power system, single pair ethernet. You know there's a lot of stuff that we used to run. You know two-conductor cabling, for that's now being done TCP, ip, that we're using category-ready cable, for that they're not even thinking about, right, and it uses such little bandwidth that a lot of times and correct me if I'm wrong, because you're the building automation expert, I'm not because of the bandwidth most of those devices are running. Cat5e is probably an overkill.

Speaker 3: 12:49

I would think so. I think you got to weigh out the application that you're trying to achieve, right? So if you're talking about a building automation system that's monitoring an HVAC traffic network, yeah, cat5e is probably going to be good enough right Now. If you go into my old castle world where we're worried about telecommunications and building out a network for a residential build, you know you've got exactly what we're doing here, right, a teleconference. That's going to require a little more oomph, but I think Cat6 will be sufficient. In my opinion, you're getting pretty decent speeds on a cat6 network these days, right, right. So, more than you know, more than I think a lot of people would use typically use. Now, if you're a high, high volume gamer or something like that, okay, sure, you might be, might be going up there, but you know, for me and my family, cat5e network is good and good enough for now. Now, as my boys get older and I got got three boys streaming the latest and greatest video game, all right, maybe I'll do an upgrade.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Well, here's the thing Cat5e can do one gig, which is good enough. Now for most residential applications. Cat5e can do better than one gig in shorter distances. Residential applications Cat 5E can do better than one gig in shorter distances. So if you're doing a house, your average run length in a house is 80 feet, 90 feet, 100 feet, something like that. So you can actually do better than one gig on 5E in a residential.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Let people realize the reason they say 295 is because they want that cable to work for 95% of the applications. And you kind of touched on the fringe a little bit on that. Because, for example, if you have a customer and I did a cabling job at a hospital once and they wanted Cat 6A cabling, and this is back when Cat 6A first came out and it was I mean, we're talking so far longer that they were talking about randomization of the cable. That's how long ago this was. And you know the people, a lot of people are like well, why are they using cat 68 cabling? I said, have you ever seen a file size of an MRI image? All right, well, they're sending that across the network, right? So that's why.

Speaker 1: 15:01

So there's, there's always going to be, the fringe, the gamers, the big files, photographers. A lot of people don't realize that If you've got a media company that does a lot of photography and videography, those are huge files that they're going to be sending across the network. So there's going to be a need for it and it's coming on. We'll see a lot more Cat 6A, but right now I think that's why the standard says Cat 6, because it's a good medium grade and all that stuff. So we start talking about building automation. A large part of my audience is the installers, and so to an installer, let's talk to them right now. What are some important considerations that they're going to need to know about the low voltage system for smart building? What are some key concepts for them?

Speaker 3: 15:44

Yeah, you know what I've seen over the years are you gotta kind of think in the future a little bit. It's always balancing, you know, future needs with with installation cost, right, um, but basically getting that cable in there the first time, right, uh, is probably a good, a good plan, uh, being able to get it, get it in there so that it's it's easy to access or remove in the in the event of a replacement, um, if you want to do an upgrade. That's the type of stuff that that we've been talking about, right Cause, let's be honest, when does wireless really come into play? When, when, when you come, when you got a retrofit building and you're like, hey, chuck, you know that cable is going to be hard to get to, well, let's just bypass it and put in a wireless network, right, but hey, if I, if I've got the conduit in there and I can, I can, you know, fish tape or something and and a new strand, and as I pull the other one out, then you've just upgraded your network with a pull right. And I think that's things that we want to keep thinking about is trying to get the install in there right the first time so that we can access it in the future.

Speaker 3: 17:03

And I'm seeing that on residential builds too right. You know we're talking about a lot of the. And I'm seeing that on residential builds too right. You know we're talking about a lot of the problems I'm talking about on a regular basis are hey, we've got this condo building. I want a better network in my building. I've got old coax cable. How can I upgrade it? Right? Well, what are your options? Right? Do you've got conduit in place to fish another twisted pair in there? What are your options? And that's why people are looking at DOCSIS 4.0 and trying to leverage the existing COAX system already in the building or talking wireless.

Speaker 1: 17:42

A lot of people don't realize COAX has a good bit of bandwidth to it. Yeah, a lot of people frown on it because CO a good bit of bandwidth to it. Yeah, a lot of people frown on it because Coax has been around for a long time but I mean they're still using it for some of your DS loops and stuff like that. It's good cable. Yeah, it's just the industry standardized on category-rated balanced-to-spera cabling because it's quick, easy and efficient to install. So cabling for building automation systems, right, or smart buildings? Is it all home run technology or are you daisy chaining?

Speaker 3: 18:14

I would say we've seen daisy chaining in there. You know there's been instances where we've designed networks that have used a daisy chain methodology. A lot of it's going to be home run back to the BMS building management system software platform. So either way it's all got to come back to the same point. But I guess if you use a ring topology as well, you can get around that as well. But star or ring it's probably. Star plus daisy chain or ring plus daisy chain has been that as well, but star or ring it's probably. You know, star plus Daisy chain or ring plus Daisy chain has been seen as well.

Speaker 3: 18:50

There's a number of different ways to skin a cat right Right.

Speaker 1: 18:55

So that just makes it even more important. People, you know people. When I start talking about bus topologies and ring topologies, you know people look at me and say Chuck, that's old school, why does he not even know that? Okay, there's a good reason right there. You just listed off one for me right there, because it's still around and they're still using it and there's advantages and disadvantages to both. So if an installer follows I don't know the ANSI standards you know, putting in your J-hooks no more than five feet apart, not pulling on a cable more than 25 pounds of tension if they follow the general rules found in the ANSI standards, that'll suffice for pulling cable for building automation systems.

Speaker 3: 19:32

Right, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure, as long as they're following it in the standards right. The standards are there for a reason and they've been tested and tried and they'll be able to get the job done with that right. And any company I know the companies I've worked for any company that's designing technology, is going to know about these standards and they're going to make sure that you know their solution works in accordance with those standards, solution works in accordance with those standards. If you encounter a company that doesn't, then you got to ask why and maybe poke around a little bit more and see if that's the best solution for your needs.

Speaker 2: 20:07

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Speaker 1: 21:03

You mentioned the building management. What'd you call it? Building management station, Building management software Software. So is that like a server or is it yeah? Just like desk mounted. Is it going to be mounted in the racks?

Speaker 3: 21:18

Yeah, great question. So it's dependent on the size of your building. So I've seen everything from a computer in the basement of the building that's running the software to. You know you go to larger sites like a campus or a hospital and it's. You know you got like a server room that's or a hospital and you've got a server room that's running that software. You're also seeing cloud-based solutions these days too. Basically, you've got your computer or your laptop with it hosted on the cloud and you can connect to the cloud and see what's going on in your building. So, basically, what that software is allowing for is it gives you a bird's eye view of where your devices are in the building, what state they're in and what they're up to right. And then you can go in there and you can say, hey, I want to do some service work on this component, go in there, shut it down. Shut it down, get in there, get your service done and then boot it back up right or run some tests or reset it or whatever you need, right, so you've got.

Speaker 1: 22:22

So it's basically just a server with some building management software on it, correct? You've got a lot of devices coming into the telecom room, terminating, I guess, on a patch panel. How is this? Is what I'm missing. Where's I'm missing the connect? How's the signal getting from? Is it going to a switch that all this stuff's plugged into? Or how? How's all the devices connecting to the server?

Speaker 3: 22:44

Yeah, you're going, you're having a, an internal network, right? Typically an internal network and and all the all, the, all the controllers are connected to that network, brings it back to the switch, and the switch and the computer will be connected to that network as well, and then you'll be able to access, access anything on that network with the right credentials.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Let me ask you and I'm by no means a network guy, that's Ed the old tech guy, I'm a knuckle dragging wire monkey Is it a good recommendation to have your, your building management software network segregated or separate from the regular land?

Speaker 3: 23:24

yeah, I, I would, I would, I would have, uh, two networks. I would separate those two out, um, you know, and then put in the proper security protocols in place to to make sure that people who shouldn't get into that network don't. And there are technologies out there from companies. In fact, the team I was working with I had team members working on a BACnet secure protocol, bacnet secure connect protocol, that basically added an additional layer of security on an open network like that. But again, keeping those networks contained from the regular internet network is probably a good plan, but you still want a port that can let you go in and out, right.

Speaker 1: 24:14

So as long as that port is secure, I attended an event last week, or was it the week before, I don't remember. I've slept since then and one of the talks was they were talking about cybersecurity. Yeah, and I've always considered myself an early adopter, because I mean, I had my first computer in like 1983. An old RadioShack 2RS80. You had to load up the software with a cassette drive. That's how old I am. So I've always considered myself an early adopter. And I'm telling you now, with all of these cyber attacks and ransomware and all that stuff, it's quickly making me want to become a Luddite. It truly is, because just people stealing your data and it's scary stuff. So I can certainly say can you imagine having a building management software and somebody hacking into it and saying, look, pay me X amount of dollars or I'll unlock every door to your building?

Speaker 1: 25:06

I'll let the zoo, I'll let the lines out there you go yeah, exactly Right, Be like that movie with Will Smith. What was it? The zombie movie where you I am legend? What was it the zombie movie?

Speaker 3: 25:19

where I am legend.

Speaker 1: 25:21

So OK. So another large segment of my audience are project managers and designers. So what kind of role do you see them in overseeing? Maybe designing or implementing smart building projects? Comparing to a regular structure cable plant, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:38

And, and you know, I correlate, you know what's a project manager kind of responsible for, right, or, or a designer, right, they're responsible for getting in there, getting the design done so it works and it's functional in a timely manner.

Speaker 3: 25:51

You know, when I think of project management, I think of you know what are the risks and timeline. So how do I mitigate risks, risks and, and what do I need to do to to be ahead of schedule? And I think, in order for them to do their job effectively, they just need to know the technology, right, they need to know the options out there and they need to know how those options kind of go together and and what are the pitfalls and what are the, the, the strengths, and they could then apply that and and get a design put together and a project put together, um, so that they can, they can meet their, their goals of getting a network in there quickly and efficiently and and and make the customer happy. Because, in the end, what are we trying to do, right? We're trying to get a building lit up and and make that customer happy, yeah, project managers don't like it when I say this, but it's the absolute truth.

Speaker 1: 26:40

Trying to do right, we're trying to get a building lit up and make that customer happy. Yeah, project managers don't like it when I say this, but it's the absolute truth. When you're a project manager, you're managing widgets. It doesn't really matter what it is, you're just tracking your labor costs, your material costs, your scheduling. You're mitigating your risks. Project management is. You know if you, if it's, if it's 18.2 cable versus you know cat 68 cable, it's same thing. It's just you're managing widgets.

Speaker 3: 27:05

Yeah, and and, but again, you know, the best thing they can do is well, know the strengths of their team and and and know the technology right. Because, if, because, if I know, you know, the tech has been working with this type of technology the longest and he knows it in and out, he's probably going to be able to, he's going to know what to look for, the do's and don'ts, and he's going to be able to get that in quickly. But if it's newer, maybe I'll give the tech a little more time, because he might, you know, end up in a situation where he's uncertain or needs to do some research. And that's fine, right, there's nothing wrong with that. But you just got to factor that in. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:49

So is there some kind of formal training for this stuff? I mean, I know, if somebody wants to learn how to pull a fiber optic cable, you can go take a Bixie class or an FOA class. If somebody wants to learn how to do copper cable, there's classes there for that too. Is there training or classes for this stuff?

Speaker 3: 28:08

So for building automation specifically and I can only speak for the employers that I've worked for we had our own training program. We had our own training program and you know we would. We would have our techs come visit us or we'd fly out to to a meeting location and we would provide training on. You know how best to use our solutions and aside from that, you know you learn the different techs and the different companies we worked with. They would, they would maybe find some other training out. You know resources elsewhere, but specifically the smart buildings. You know what's making it smart is the controllers and the sensors, and that's what we really focused our time and effort on training on and then just making sure that the cable installation and the network adhere to the best performance of those controllers.

Speaker 1: 29:02

So that sounds a lot to me like the voice and data days. When I first got in, there wasn't a whole bunch of training unless you worked for Ma Bell. You know your company. Somebody took you under the wing. That's a huge opportunity there for somebody who's very smart with building management stuff, and if they want to create classes, that sounds like a huge potential to make some money there.

Speaker 3: 29:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:28

That's it for this episode of today's podcast. We hope you were able to learn something. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on future content. Also, leave a rating so we can help even more people learn about telecommunications. Until next time, be safe.