Embark on an enlightening odyssey with Michael Mukupa CFOT SNR NCS, as we uncover the grit and intellect required to conquer the Registered Communications Distribution Designer (RCDD) certification. As a licensed Network Cabling Specialist and a certified Fiber Optic Technician, Michael is no stranger to the intricacies of the ICT industry. However, his thirst for knowledge led him to seek the RCDD. Together, we'll navigate the compelling tale of ambition and the quest for professional mastery that can reshape the career landscape for any committed ICT professional.
As Michael reveals his strategies for tackling the RCDD exam, we'll delve into the practical aspects of certification—from the meticulous organization of study materials to the financial investment of self-funding versus company sponsorship. Discover the transformative power of study groups, where shared knowledge and collective wisdom foster an environment ripe for success. Michael's narrative is not just a chronicle of his own endeavors but a beacon for those in the trenches of the ICT field, proving that with the right approach and a steadfast commitment to growth, the pinnacle of certification is attainable for all.
Knowledge is power! Make sure to stop by the webpage to buy me a cup of coffee or support the show at https://linktr.ee/letstalkcabling . Also if you would like to be a guest on the show or have a topic for discussion send me an email at chuck@letstalkcabling.com
Chuck Bowser RCDD TECH
#CBRCDD #RCDD
Embark on an enlightening odyssey with Michael Mukupa CFOT SNR NCS, as we uncover the grit and intellect required to conquer the Registered Communications Distribution Designer (RCDD) certification. As a licensed Network Cabling Specialist and a certified Fiber Optic Technician, Michael is no stranger to the intricacies of the ICT industry. However, his thirst for knowledge led him to seek the RCDD. Together, we'll navigate the compelling tale of ambition and the quest for professional mastery that can reshape the career landscape for any committed ICT professional.
As Michael reveals his strategies for tackling the RCDD exam, we'll delve into the practical aspects of certification—from the meticulous organization of study materials to the financial investment of self-funding versus company sponsorship. Discover the transformative power of study groups, where shared knowledge and collective wisdom foster an environment ripe for success. Michael's narrative is not just a chronicle of his own endeavors but a beacon for those in the trenches of the ICT field, proving that with the right approach and a steadfast commitment to growth, the pinnacle of certification is attainable for all.
Knowledge is power! Make sure to stop by the webpage to buy me a cup of coffee or support the show at https://linktr.ee/letstalkcabling . Also if you would like to be a guest on the show or have a topic for discussion send me an email at chuck@letstalkcabling.com
Chuck Bowser RCDD TECH
#CBRCDD #RCDD
Hey Y-Mongies, welcome to another episode of let's Talk. Cableing this episode, we're going to document somebody's journey to get their RCDD. Welcome to this show where we tackle the tough questions submitted by installers, estimators, project managers, ict personnel and even customers. We're connecting at the human level so that we can connect the world. If you're watching this show on YouTube, would you mind hitting the subscribe button and the bell button to be notified when new content is being produced? If you're listening to us on one of the audio podcast platforms, like Apple or Stitcher or Google, would you mind leaving us a five star rating? Those simple little steps helps us take on the algorithm so we can educate, encourage and enrich the lives of people in the ICT industry.
Speaker 1:Thursday night, 6 pm, eastern Standard Time. What are you doing? I do a live stream on TikTok, facebook, linkedin and a bunch of other places where you get to ask your favorite RCDD. You know that's me. Your questions on installation, certification, design, project management, even career path questions. But I can hear you now. But I'm driving my truck and there's six people. There's a little girl in there and I don't want to crash. I got you covered. They're recorded and they're put on the webpage at letstalkkatelyncom. And finally, while this show is free and will always remain free, if you find value in this content, will you click on this QR code right there? You can buy me a cup of coffee, you can schedule a 15 minute one-on-one call with me, after hours, of course, and also we're looking for corporate sponsors. So if your company's values align with educate, encourage and enrich, and you can operate in an agnostic platform, give me a holler on social media. Let's make this work.
Speaker 1:So, like I said in the introduction, I'm friends with a lot of people. I have friends that I've met, friends that I haven't met, but they're still friends to me. And I've been wanting to do for a while an episode on, I wanted to document somebody's journey on their way to get the RCDD, because one of the things I always hear is but Chuck, it's so hard. Yes, it's designed to be hard, right? If anybody could do it, then there'd be a whole bunch of RCDs out there and it would devalue that certification. It's not going to be the easiest thing to do, but I wanted to document it because, yes, it's not the easiest thing. There are some hoops you got to jump through, but in the end it's going to be worth it.
Speaker 1:So the person that I picked is someone who interacts with a lot of my social media posts on LinkedIn and him and I have exchanged messages before. He's asked me some questions and stuff like that. So, as he mentioned, he's taking his RCDD. He's like that's the person I want to talk to. That's the person. I already knew it. I just knew it as soon as I came with. So, welcome to the show, michael Mucupa. How are you doing, my friend?
Speaker 2:Thank you, chuck, I'm doing great. How are?
Speaker 1:you doing? I'm doing fantastic. I'm glad to have you on the show, my friend. I mean, like I said, we've talked many times through the keyboard right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think it's been over a year now. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:We're closing, so why don't you go and tell the audience what's your background like?
Speaker 2:So, as you said, my name is Michael Mucupa. Originally from Southern Africa, right across the other side of the world, I migrated to Canada in 2014. Now Canadian and Zambian, currently a licensed network cabling specialist, which is what you see behind me there. It's a licensed that is run through the government of Ontario here in Canada and IBW, so a licensed network cabling specialist that recently competed my apprenticeship about two years ago now and I'm also a certified fiber optic technician with the FAA, fiber Optic Association, nice, and currently an RCDD aspirant.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know, I'm so excited for you man, I'm so excited to be part of this journey. I'm so glad you're allowing me and my audience members to be a part of this journey, right? So tell me, first off, how did you first learn about the RCDD?
Speaker 2:So RCDD is something I learned actually through one of my biggest mentors. His name is Bradley Watt, an RCDD who you may or may not have met. He's been an RCDD since 1997, I believe. So Brad has been my foreman on a lot of jobs right throughout my fellowship. We became friends outside of work as well and I just had an admiration for his level of expertise and I was like you know, that's where I want to go with my career. I want to be a competent person in this industry. So I asked Brad a lot of questions about RCDD and what it took, and you know it's something I just put in the back of my wallet. We're doing a piece of paper Like, hey, maybe one day that's what I want to be. So that's how it all started.
Speaker 2:Once I got my NCS. I always have a hunger to learn more. I was like you know what? I think now's the time to get that RCDD. I do have quite a big network of colleagues, friends, people like you. You're one of the people I asked about it. You're like go for it, mike. Everybody I asked was like just do it. You know something that you're not going to regret. And I was actually at the cottage. When I decided to everybody was like getting ready for dinner, like on the computer, just trying to get this application in, like what's going on? They're like no, I'm doing it and I'm doing it now, and just got this off my chest and glad I did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's my career. I was just telling somebody this in the Facebook group earlier today, or maybe it was last night because somebody asked about you know the RCDD or the Bixi Tech certification, and was it worth it? And I was like yes and yes, it's it. My career shifted into second gear overdrive, right, as soon as I got that right, because people look at you differently when you have that certification. For me, the flip side was not only scare you away from it, but when I got my past my test, I was like, oh my God, now people are going to ask me questions and they're going to expect me to know the answers, right, right, because you're an RCDD, you should know this.
Speaker 1:I learned the phrase pretty quickly. There's 2,000 pages in the TDMM. I can't remember every single page, but I'll get that information for you if you really like it.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's. That's how I always look at it too. Like I will know everything, I'll know where to find it, and if it's not right, because I've probably seen it, I'll be able to know the difference, right?
Speaker 1:So the gentleman that you mentioned is. He still help, mentoring you through this process as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, I'm actually meeting him for dinner this Friday, Nice Well meet him, tell him I said hello.
Speaker 1:I said certainly. Well, yeah, I don't know if I know him or not, because I know a lot of RCDDs, but I can't remember everyone I know. But yeah, what the heck? Two mentors mentoring the same person. I like it, I like it. So you learned about the RCDD through your mentor, right? Yes, what was the driving force that made you say you know what I need to do this? I?
Speaker 2:guess just the pursuit and hunger for more. Like I look at our industry and I'm like we don't really have that standardization across the board. Right, but it all starts with having competent people from installers, project managers, you know. So like I'm going to be part of the solution by empowering myself first and then see who else that inspires and take it from there.
Speaker 1:I know you can inspire a lot of people in this journey. I know you are because, like I said, I see your posts and stuff and I could tell from the first time that I saw your LinkedIn profile and how you would answer some of my questions and stuff. I was like this guy gets it. He's a continuous learner, and that's if you want to succeed in the ICT industry. You don't have to know everything, you don't even have to be the best, you just have to be a continual learner. That's the key, because the exact way that we did cabling 40 years ago, when I first got in this industry, is not the same way we're doing cabling today. Right, and if I'd still be putting in Twin X you know, coax and type one cabling, I wouldn't have a job. Exactly Nobody's doing that stuff anymore, right?
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:So where are you in the process right now? So have you filled out your application already?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I actually did my application back in September, but the first week of September.
Speaker 1:That's right, because you and I first started talking about back then. We've been doing the whole email, social media exchange, trying to coordinate schedules and finally get you on the show. So you've filled out your application, okay. So did you do that online or did you fill out the paper and send it to them?
Speaker 2:Actually I did that online. First thing I did was download the RCDD handbook Version 14? Yes, Version 14. Yep, so looked at kind of looked at the eligibility, just make sure I was eligible, before I actually started investing time and money into this. And yeah, I collected all my certifications, my qualifications, made a little package. I tried to keep them organized, so it wasn't that hard of a task for me. I digitized everything, just looked at what I had made up a little package and took it from there, just submitted everything online.
Speaker 1:So it was online. Was it an easy process? Was it intuitive?
Speaker 2:It was fairly easy. It was pretty straightforward, I would say, for me. I've always been a big C member, actually even when I was doing my apprenticeship as an apprentice big C member. So I already had an account. I was already sort of familiar with navigating the big C website. But it's fairly easy, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the reason I asked that? Because it might be somebody who might be a little bit older than you who might struggle with. You know they do the two finger typing right, you know where they're like that and they might be a little slow. That's why I was curious when I filled out my RC application I had to go get a boulder from the backyard and a hammer and a chisel and I had to roll it downhill to the big C.
Speaker 2:Just roll it down.
Speaker 1:Well, obviously I'm exaggerating, because we know it wasn't on a boat or it was really. It was done maybe, maybe sent by Dove. Chuck is old. Chuck is old. You know what can I say Then? What can I say? So there are three ways that you can qualify for sitting for the RC exam. And, by the way, if you are, for those who are listening to the show and you're thinking this is interesting, I might want to do this I highly and Mike has already talked about it the RCDD handbook. Just do a Google search RCDD handbook. Just make sure you look at version 14. It'll list those three different ways that you can qualify for the exam. It'll tell you why you should take the, why you should get your RC exam. It'll tell you it'll actually break down the exam a little bit too and tell you which areas you're going to have questions from.
Speaker 1:It'll give you some suggestions for studying tips yeah, and that is a great free resource. That's the key there.
Speaker 2:It's free, it is. I actually use it as my study guide because it has everything. It's broken down in percentages, so you know which area is going to have most of the questions and you know, I can kind of ask myself those questions and be like, oh, do I know the answers to that Right?
Speaker 1:So in I do remember reading in there that they asked for a copy of your resume. Did you send the copy of your resume to them as part of the application process?
Speaker 2:So they did not require a resume per se. The online form is kind of in a resume format sort of Gotcha. So it does have section where you have your work history, your educational background. So essentially it's like you're filling out your resume.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, perfect, okay, got you. So you said you filled your resume. You filled out your application two months ago, two and a half months ago, something like that. I'm sure you probably had to put down references and stuff as well. Has Big S followed up on your references to make sure, or have any of your references said, hey, they called me.
Speaker 2:That's one question. I actually didn't ask any of my references. They got Bixie got back to me fairly quick. So within about a week of my application I had heard back. They said you are successful. Wow, they gave me a year from the date I believe it was September 4th. I have until September 4th, 2024 to write my exam, which is another thing that can lead to procrastination Because they give you so much time. So immediately I saw that I kind of gave myself a very tight timeline just so I could push my study. Like, if I don't feel ready I can always extend it.
Speaker 1:But I'm going to make it. We're going to talk about that more in just a minute. You said something about you had organized all your certificates and stuff like that. Did you have to send copies of your certificates over as part of that application?
Speaker 2:Yes, so they did ask. There's a section where they do ask for you to upload truth of stuff that you had listed. So I'm always doing a lot of certs, like I'm constantly learning. I'm always doing my comscope stuff, my building corning, the IBW has night classes, three night classes, so I'm always doing a lot of stuff. So that was kind of I had that at hand and most of our courses are all like big C recognized. You actually get the big C credits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would do, I would probably, I'm, I'm. It doesn't sound like I'm as organized as you are because I would probably struggle in the fine copies of all my certificates. So that's my wife. She's been asking me for this document that I had notarized like five weeks ago for this thing built on the back of the property, and I just gave it to her yesterday. Five weeks, five weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing I learned from from my mentor, brad. He used to have what he calls the breadbook, like he would pull it out, and it has all his certification from 1947. Just kidding.
Speaker 1:Brad.
Speaker 2:No, he's not.
Speaker 1:No, he's not. He called you old. I heard him, I heard him. I got my last CD in 1999.
Speaker 2:I kind of picked that up from him. So I keep my, my book.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this the. So there's fees. Right, you have to pay the, the application fee. You have to pay the exam fee. If you fail the exam, you got to pay the exam retake fee. Are you footing this yourself, or is your company paying you to do that?
Speaker 2:So initially my company was willing to do it. They didn't give me a timeline and I was like, well, this is my certification, I want it. I'll probably put in more time and effort when I'm using my own resources, so I just went for it myself.
Speaker 1:That says a lot about the certificate, how much that certification means to you, because a lot of people want to get certified but they don't. They're not willing to shell out their own money to go do it and and again. That RCD handbook will give you all those fees and explain all that stuff for you. But that's good for you, man, and the good thing is, once you get your RCD you know you won't be tied to anybody. I mean that happens a lot when people, when companies pay for the application and exam fee and and maybe whatever courses they might take as well, a lot of times they make them sign training agreements so they're stuck with that company. So you, I mean I don't know if you're going to, I don't know if you're going to stay with the company, and I'd say the company, because for someone who's who's looking to get the certification, at least now they won't be tied to that, if that makes sense, right, right, and that, just that just kind of goes show you just how much it how much means to you. You already answered my net.
Speaker 1:My next question was how long did they get approved? What was your application? You said it was like a week. I think right, a week or 10 days, or about a week or so. Got you, got you, you got you. You got your approval Right. What plans have you thought about for studying to get done to make sure you read through all the way through the book to get your to be able to take your test?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so studying to study was pretty hard in the beginning, Like obviously it's like a big 2000 and something page like manual. I did have the it's in from which I got through the IBW trade school program and I'll use that occasionally to answer your questions.
Speaker 1:That's how you know all the answers. So, by the way, for those who are listening, the it's in is the information transport systems installations methods manual. That's another big see best practice. That was actually geared more towards installation than it is towards designs. There is some crossover between the it's and the TDMM, but if you're trying to study for your RCDD you want to be focused on that TDMM, the telecom distribution methods manual. It's not going to hurt you to read through the it's them. But trust me, when you read through, as Mike pointed out, all 2000 pages, especially that first chapter, principles of transmission, that makes my head hurt just thinking about that chapter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, oh man, this like trying to be a physicist here, Right right, and yeah, because I've run.
Speaker 1:I've run, I think, three or four RCD study groups and I tell you what that first chapter causes more people to drop out than anything, Because people read through that and I go oh my God, I got to know all this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for that I kind of gave myself just a timeline. I was like I'm going to read this number of pages. I gave myself, I think about two weeks or something like that, two to three weeks. I divided the number of pages by the timeline and set reminders. I always have reminders on my phone, big C page read. So I just always read the page. I got through it, started the next chapter. But as I kept going I was like, okay, this is kind of I was still finding it hard to read. Like I'm kind of a person who learns by being like reading and getting challenged, kind of Right, looked up, the big big C actually has flashcards for the TDM. Yes, I've got a set, I've got a set. Yeah, I was like you know what? I'm going to get these two and kind of help me like to kind of reinforce my reading. Right. Also, it highlights what I should be more focused on, right, right.
Speaker 1:So what I usually recommend for people, you get that year right. Once you get approved by the application, you get a year. And I usually recommend to people and this is just my recommendations you ask 10 different RCDDs, you'll get 12 different recommendations. This is just the Chuck Bowser recommendation.
Speaker 2:I did I did.
Speaker 1:Thank you for what that's worth. So my suggestion is Pick a date that you want to take that test it sounds like you've already picked your date and also give yourself time. So I mean both ways, right? So if you think, okay, I'll be done, I'll have this book completely read in six months, schedule your test at seven months. Okay, because, long story not, life will happen. Life will happen, right? People get married, people have babies, family members die. You get you can sit on out of town projects. Life happens, it just does. I've seen this through four study groups. It happens. Give yourself a little extra time, but keeping the back of your mind that you gotta leave some time on the backside of that in case you don't pass that test Because you gotta wait 30 days to retake that test, right? So pick that date.
Speaker 1:Once you pick that date, pay for the test. Pay for the test, because what that does is number one. Now you got skin in the game, right? If I don't, if I paid for this test, it'd be taken in six months. And oh my gosh, here I am, four months and I got two months left to study and I've only read through a third of the book. Right, you got skin in the game. That's gonna force you to do that right. It's gonna get you focused and get you through that.
Speaker 1:So and then, once you pick that timeframe, what I did with mine was I just divided out the number of days between the time I started my study to the time I was gonna take the test and I took off Sunday. So six days a week times, or whatever. I divided that number into the pages. So I know that every day I'd read X number of pages. So that way you can always tell if you're ahead or behind. Right, Because I even did a little spreadsheet chart.
Speaker 1:I love spreadsheets, I'm one of them kind of geeks right? So I had a little spreadsheet week one, week two, week three, and I had to beat this spot. So that way I always knew if I was ahead or behind. If I got behind because I don't know, I was working overtime on a project somewhere I knew okay, I'm 20 pages behind. If I read an extra page a day, I'll be caught up in 20 days. Right, just helps you get caught up. It really does. Let me ask you this Are you doing this all on your own? Are you forming a study group? Have you joined a study group. What's your process here?
Speaker 2:So I've actually just been doing this by myself, but I do have resources, people that I am able to reach out to, and there's actually a very good group on Reddit that your name actually pops up quite a few times.
Speaker 1:That's a project, because that's like one of the social media platforms I am not on. Yeah yeah. I am on there, but it's not like all the other social media where I'm posting daily. I haven't posted in like five months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, that group has quite a bit of our CDDs that have been going through the process Right right. Each one of them share their journey, their stories, their resources, which is like really great, so I'm able to get some ideas and tips from everybody.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely Absolutely. So the reason I asked about a study group is people who really excel as installers and technicians are usually tactile learners, meaning they really learn when they put their hands on stuff. They learn better. You do pick up. You absorb 30% of the stuff when you read it. You absorb 70% of the stuff if you read it and then put your hands on it. Right, and that's why I always recommend a study group.
Speaker 1:And here's the beautiful thing yes, I do study groups, but I just finished one, literally like last week. I am not doing another study group until next year, till Q1 next year actually. But you can start your own study group. You can create your own little your thing on Discord. You can just, I know you're on LinkedIn. You can hop on LinkedIn and say, hey guys, look, I wanna do an informal study group and here's the time for it and the reason I say you should do that. It's like it creates an accountability group, right. So now you know if you decide you want to meet on Mondays at 5pm or whatever daytime you guys pick, you know when you go there on Monday 5, you know you're going to have a group of other knowledge hungry Archety want to get their certification and say hey, did you do your reading Exactly?
Speaker 1:You're going to be more apt to get your reading done If you know somebody's going to ask you did you?
Speaker 1:do your reading. And one thing I've learned over the years as being a student and also being an instructor is your learning increases when you interact with other people on the same journey. Right, because I can read a paragraph out of the TMM. You can read a paragraph out of the TMM, same paragraph, and then your mentor can also read a paragraph and all three of us will pull away three different things out of that and through discussion, you'll gain a better understanding. That's why I highly recommend always do. That's why I always recommend do a study group Doesn't have to be a paid study group.
Speaker 1:You can because you, matter of fact, the my Bixie mentor last year, mentor mentee last year. She became my mentee after we were like halfway through a study group and I said look, I don't want to bring you in the middle of the group because we're already halfway through. You're going to you're going to miss the whole first half of it, and you know. But I told her, yeah, I said start your own study group. And that's exactly what she did. She went to discord, she created a thing and, boom, they went through it and she got her RCDD Right. So so, yeah, definitely consider doing doing a study group. Definitely do consider deciding.
Speaker 2:Very interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and that's that's funny that you told me that my name pops up on Reddit, yeah, multiple times. That's good, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:That podcast is really helping open people. It's good, great.
Speaker 1:That's why I do it. I do it for people like you, and here's what I'm going to do for you, Mr Mike. So, as part of my RCD study group, I do have practice exams, right, and they're based on the chapters. The practice exam questions are not I'm going to say that again, are not duplicates of what you're going to find in the RCD program. I'm in the RCD test. I don't have access to those test questions and even if I did, I wouldn't give them out to people because I had to learn the hard way. You got to learn hard way, but there are questions that will help you gauge how well your reading is going. If that makes sense, right, I will give you access to those, to those practice exams for your journey to help you go on and you already know you can. You can shoot me a message. You can always you know you know text message me or send me a message on LinkedIn. You know if you have a question and you also have a mentor there.
Speaker 1:So I want to see you through this journey and I want to follow back up with you again after you take your test. You up for that, Absolutely All right. Hopefully it's going to be good news. But even if you don't pass, I still want to do it, because many, many people don't pass that test on their first time, and you're looking at one right now. It took me two attempts to get my RCDD, so even if you fail, I still want to have you on, because there will be people who don't pass their first time, so that's going to help them understand. It's not the end of the world If you don't pass it your first time around. I got a feeling, though just based on on how little I know you already. I have a feeling my money says you're going to pass on that first time.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, yes, for that confidence. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let me just let Thank you so much for the questions. Oh yeah, absolutely so. Is there anything that you might want to tell somebody who might be listening to this episode right now about what you've, what you've gone through so far chasing the RCDD?
Speaker 2:It's. The RCDD is scary, right when you first just even when you just look at the handbook and the stuff it talks about. But it's something that that can be done. It can be done by anyone, can be done by technician like me, can be done by somebody from the office. It's you just have to break it down and into smaller pieces and tackle it a day at a time, like and anyone can, can do it. Just it takes time and commitment. Like it requires a lot of commitment. It's not easy, but so far it has been worthwhile and I'm looking forward to continuing this journey.
Speaker 1:Yes, one other thing that I hear quite often is, like I said, I've been through the four study groups I've done so far. The thing I hear consistently from people taking the RCDD exam even if they don't pass the exam, just reading through the TDMM has helped them become more proficient and more knowledgeable in their job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely that's. That's something actually I was going to add like, even at this stage, from what I've studied I've been studying now for about two and a half months or so but it's just made me so much more knowledgeable, right, like I'm able to help others with questions, even at work. Right, it's just, and it's something I plan to keep doing. Like it's not like you write your exam, get your RCDD and sit back, like you said. Our world is changing, yep, right, but I'm still on top of it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you coming on the show and I'm looking forward to talking to you after you take your test.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me, Chuck. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Now I hope you listen to that episode and I hope that if you've been on the fence, that it inspires you. I'm going to tell you now. It's a journey. It's a long journey, but think of it. There's an old adage in the project management role how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time? That's what this process is. It's going to be a long, hard journey, but it's going to be worth in the long run. Make sure you tune back in when I post the episode, when I interview Mike again about his exam. Until next time, knowledge is power.